When to chop American Larch?

[herzausstahl]

So I have a few American Larch in my grow beds and one in the ground. When is the best time of year (zone 5, just started leafing out) to do a trunk chop on these? I thought about air layering but given that I want to do that to my Dawn Redwoods and get a few different species, I might not have the room so it could be a waste of time. There isn't much interesting on them to bother air layering with, very straight trunks as I neglected them and didn't do any wiring, why I would rather get $4 seedlings to grow out and wire the trunks/earlier chops instead. I know @crust, @fourteener, and probably @mattspiniken are in colder climates than me and work with these species, when do you guys do it? Also for these guys do you use a more water retentive soil like you would for a deciduous tree or treat them more like an evergreen with a more free draining soil?

 

[herzausstahl]

So I have 5 of these that might fit this profile. 2 That are 5-6' tall in the chop now category, one about 3' tall, and 2 4-5' tall that are in the maybe chop. I'll start with a chop now one. This one is about 6' tall, question is not only when would you chop, but where? They all still have lower branches so I want to move before the taper disappears too much along with the lower branches, these have all admittedly been neglected of any training since being planted as 18-24" seedlings a few years back.

We'll call this Larch #1 for interpretations sake. (I know crust or fourteener, can't remember which has plant stakes with numbers for trees in development, definitely need to borrow this tactic). I didn't take an overall height picture but its 6'+

 

[herzausstahl]

This next one, I'll call Larch #2, is in the ground. The last pic is where the old top must've broken off in the wind and it put out it's own new leader, not sure if this part would be worth an air layer or not. Still working on my bonsai "vision" so I defer to the more experienced eyes on this site. Sorry for the crappy pics but the location doesn't lend itself to putting up a backdrop and the cloudy skies today didn't help either.

 

[herzausstahl]

This one is the one I like the most for the nebari so I am definitely open to advice on what to do to make it better. Not sure if its possible to wire some movement into the trunk yet, or better off to chop and wire a new leader. I'll call this Larch #3.



The grow beds are equal parts top soil, pea stone, sand, and compost (yard waste site manufactured mulch, that is essentially a compost mix, I am pretty sure heat treated, need to reread the process next visit)

 

[herzausstahl]

The tree on the left is Larch #4 and the one on the right is Larch #5. These are 5-6" tall with smaller trunks. What would you do with them?

 

[herzausstahl]

If you need better pics of any of the trees before you can offer advice, just ask and I'll do the best I can to provide them! Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

 

[mattspinniken]

So I have a few American Larch in my grow beds and one in the ground. When is the best time of year (zone 5, just started leafing out) to do a trunk chop on these? I thought about air layering but given that I want to do that to my Dawn Redwoods and get a few different species, I might not have the room so it could be a waste of time. There isn't much interesting on them to bother air layering with, very straight trunks as I neglected them and didn't do any wiring, why I would rather get $4 seedlings to grow out and wire the trunks/earlier chops instead. I know @crust, @fourteener, and probably @mattspiniken are in colder climates than me and work with these species, when do you guys do it? Also for these guys do you use a more water retentive soil like you would for a deciduous tree or treat them more like an evergreen with a more free draining soil?

Spring is a good time to chop them, they have all season to heal the wound before going into winter. In a lot of ways Larch are more like deciduous trees than conifers but I use a very inorganic mix with good results. Alot of what soil you use it dependent on how often you can water.

 

[GGB]

I chop mine in mid winter because I suck at bonsai, but have never had any issues there. I do use a wound sealer though. And my larch has had a good response moving from organic to mostly inorganic mix. But it's not worth noting since my organic mix was pretty muddy and compacted. Just don't over fertilize or you'll get explosive growth you can't control. And remember back budding isn't really gonna happen much on these guys

 

[herzausstahl]

Spring is a good time to chop them, they have all season to heal the wound before going into winter. In a lot of ways Larch are more like deciduous trees than conifers but I use a very inorganic mix with good results. Alot of what soil you use it dependent on how often you can water.

Do you wait till they finish leafing out? I'm trying to think how much energy would still be stored in the roots. Any advice on where you'd chop the 2 big ones? The smaller ones would you chop & wire a new leader? Or would you try to wire some movement into the current trunks?

 

[mattspinniken]

The better times would be before they leaf out or after the new growth hardens off, although these are likely nice and vigorous growing in the ground and would be fine about anytime, those times are better. You have a few nice ones to work with so try some different things with them. Keep in mind long straight sections will always be there and taperless sections can be regrown. I would chop some higher and make a dead top and chop others lower and grow out taper. They grow really fast especially in the ground with plenty of fert.

If you can wire movement into the trunks and chop that would be good on the smaller ones, and then wire up your new leader. You could also work on putting together a group planting with a few of yours that mesh well together.

Also, I really like your grow beds. They have inspired me to make some for myself.

 

[crust]

Do you wait till they finish leafing out? I'm trying to think how much energy would still be stored in the roots. Any advice on where you'd chop the 2 big ones? The smaller ones would you chop & wire a new leader? Or would you try to wire some movement into the current trunks?

Many variables but chopping in early summer, especially in a cold climate, will utilize energy to callus and generate more compact growth. Follow with a increasing regiment of fertilizer until fall. Chopping in the spring one removes many of the preformed buds, steals energy building green and directs the tree to allocate most of its resources for emergency regrowth at the expense of everything else. Forming and directing new leaders prior to chopping is the best with larch that you are doing long project chopping. Remember to always retain all lower and small branches not only to continue your plan but also to be sacrificial branches to assist taper building. Remember larch won't taper without intervention--they resist it, aside from decades of being grown with a super flat thin root ball they won't taper without using hack backs and sacs.

 

[crust]

Oh, and I do use a soil with organics for larch. Basic grow out substrate that works well for me- 1/3 bark nodules (Fafards soil conditioner or the like) 1/3 perlite, 1/3 core material (whatever you can get or a mix of - lava, pumice, haydite, turface etc.) sift out fines, keep finer than modern soil.

 

[M. Frary]

@crust, @fourteener,

These are the 2 guys to go to for tamarack advice.

 

[crust]

Years of retaining small low branches and hack result in squat nasty larch like this one I pulled out of the garden this spring. its started as an unremarkable small larch initially hacked to a low point----- again and again. It has an interesting future as a squat demon larch with great taper.

 

[herzausstahl]

These are the 2 guys to go to for tamarack advice.

In my mind I think of them as the tamarack experts on here the same as Vance is for mugos.

 

[petegreg]

@crust I think one more detail is required. How much foliage can be safely removed by chopping, 50% of green mass, like with other conifers?

 

[M. Frary]

@crust I think one more detail is required. How much foliage can be safely removed by chopping, 50% of green mass, like with other conifers?

You can cut off all but one branch.
When collecting they get cut from 10 feet tall down to 10 inches.

 

[petegreg]

You can cut off all but one branch.
When collecting they get cut from 10 feet tall down to 10 inches.

Thanks, this sounds good.

 

[herzausstahl]

Oh, and I do use a soil with organics for larch. Basic grow out substrate that works well for me- 1/3 bark nodules (Fafards soil conditioner or the like) 1/3 perlite, 1/3 core material (whatever you can get or a mix of - lava, pumice, haydite, turface etc.) sift out fines, keep finer than modern soil.

Thanks! Do you do anything to keep the perlite from washing out?

 

[herzausstahl]

You can cut off all but one branch.
When collecting they get cut from 10 feet tall down to 10 inches.

That's kind of what I'm looking at with the big ones. @M. Frary Would you try to wire the trunks on the smaller ones (1-2" diameter) or chop them lower & work in a new leader?