When to cut back a JBP
- Thread starter TacomaBonsai95
- Start date
namnhi
Masterpiece
You got plenty of needles in the lower part of the tree. Also based on the candles haven't even expanded and are about to head into the summer months... I see no reason to chop anything at this point. Wait another month or two would help with thickening the trunk and a healthier tree.
TacomaBonsai95
Mame
I will wait. Would you recommend thinning out the center of the tree? There is a lot of buds popping up in there and I'm concerned they might get weakened by the vigor in the top of the tree.
namnhi
Masterpiece
I don't see that happening this year.
Gaitano
Shohin
Jonas Dupuich at Bonsaitonight has a blog full of JBP development posts. Read through the posts relevant to you stage of development and goals. They helped me out tremendously when starting two from seed. Here’s a sample post that may be relevant.
bonsaitonight.com
Bonsai Development Series #26: Focusing growth in a single sacrifice branch - Bonsai Tonight
For the last few years I've been pruning my young pines down to a single sacrifice branch. This slows growth but allows me to fit more trees on the bench.
bonsaitonight.com
Japonicus
Imperial Masterpiece
Telperion Farms grows the top out up to 15 feet to gain trunk girth
while maintaining the bonsai to be, at the lower level.
So I would not be in such a hurry to remove the top so soon.
When you do, Fall to mid Winter is fine and the sap will not run so much.
while maintaining the bonsai to be, at the lower level.
So I would not be in such a hurry to remove the top so soon.
When you do, Fall to mid Winter is fine and the sap will not run so much.
Wulfskaar
Masterpiece
From what I can gather, there's a trade-off: Cutting candles to gain lower budding and branch ramification can get you set up for the future growth, but cutting the candles will stop wood growth in the trunk for that year.
So, I think the answer depends on your goal... Do you want a large, thick trunk sooner? Or do you want to develop branching and style first, then grow a sacrifice branch later? Are you ok with shohin-sized bonsai or do you want a large, fat one?
So, I think the answer depends on your goal... Do you want a large, thick trunk sooner? Or do you want to develop branching and style first, then grow a sacrifice branch later? Are you ok with shohin-sized bonsai or do you want a large, fat one?
LuZiKui
Shohin
Bonsai Tonight is a great resource, Jonas knows his stuff.
If you have some time I'd recommend reading through this thread:
www.bonsainut.com
What Ryceman has been able to do in just 6 years is pretty astonishing and that should give you a good guideline of when to cut stuff (just remember his seasons are opposite since he's down under.
If you have some time I'd recommend reading through this thread:
Ryceman3's 6yr JBP Contest Entry
And so it begins ... well, for me anyway. Being from the Southern Hemisphere I am patiently waiting for July 1, and have spent the past month or more looking for JBP seeds to work with. They are not so plentiful in this part of the world, and our quarantine laws make importing seed from overseas...
What Ryceman has been able to do in just 6 years is pretty astonishing and that should give you a good guideline of when to cut stuff (just remember his seasons are opposite since he's down under.
Maiden69
Masterpiece
There is a big difference in development between Jonas, Telperion, and @Ryceman3. I think the later two are very similar, ground growing, but due to the contest time constraints Ryceman3 did the chops earlier than what Telperion used to do. Jonas strictly grows in colanders and terracotta pots. Colander will allow for faster growth (same as a Rootpouch) given that you water the tree often and fertilize as well. Then the pot will take care of making the tree older.
Need to note that telperion grows the tree in a pot the first 2 years to develop lower branching, lower trunk shape, and radial root spread before placing then in Rootpouches before plating them in the field.
Also, it depends on what size tree you are aiming for. Telperion trees were usually omono (30-48") size and larger and this is why you see the leader reaching over 15' tall, while Jonas trees are usually between shohin and chumono. Their leader may run a few feets tall, but never to the size telperion had. Not to mention the tree in the ground will be able to have a much larger leader, vs a tree in a pot or a bag over the soil.
@TacomaBonsai95 most of them reduce the vigor of the leader at decandeling time (your tree is not ready for decandeling as it is a refinement technique) so around JUN-JUL you can decandle the leader leaving the center candle and pluck most needles out of the neck of the previous year. Then next spring you can cut it off. I also seen people cutting it off all at the same time (JUN-JUL), but that will bring you a lot of juvenile growth, which will take a season or two to revert to mature foliage.
Need to note that telperion grows the tree in a pot the first 2 years to develop lower branching, lower trunk shape, and radial root spread before placing then in Rootpouches before plating them in the field.
Also, it depends on what size tree you are aiming for. Telperion trees were usually omono (30-48") size and larger and this is why you see the leader reaching over 15' tall, while Jonas trees are usually between shohin and chumono. Their leader may run a few feets tall, but never to the size telperion had. Not to mention the tree in the ground will be able to have a much larger leader, vs a tree in a pot or a bag over the soil.
@TacomaBonsai95 most of them reduce the vigor of the leader at decandeling time (your tree is not ready for decandeling as it is a refinement technique) so around JUN-JUL you can decandle the leader leaving the center candle and pluck most needles out of the neck of the previous year. Then next spring you can cut it off. I also seen people cutting it off all at the same time (JUN-JUL), but that will bring you a lot of juvenile growth, which will take a season or two to revert to mature foliage.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
The question for you is, do you like the size of the trunk now or do you want it bigger?
If you want it bigger, you should not cut that trunk back. I see that as your sacrifice trunk.
Remove the needles as you see in the picture of the Telperion pines above. That will reduce shading of the lower areas and help promote back budding and lower shoots.
Develop your tree from those lower shoots. Cut the sacrifice when the trunk is as big as you would like.
Cut the candles on the lower shoots only to promote back budding and develop ramification down there.
TacomaBonsai95
Mame
Okay, should I leave all of the growth up? Or remove some of it and leave one or 2 leaders? I was under the impression that it would hurt the tree if I left such a large mass for sacrifice and then removed it quickly. I will remove some needles so the lower shoots are more visible. Will post an update when that's done.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Take a look at the picture above of the field of trees growing at Telperion. Notice how there is nothing on that sacrifice trunk until you get to about the last 1-2 feet of it at the top?
They keep that big tall sacrifice branch until the lower trunk is as thick as they want and there is enough branching close to the lower trunk then they cut off that entire sacrifice.
