When to plant Amur Maple keys

[The Warm Canuck]

At what time of the year can I remove the keys from this Amur and plant them in the ground. can I do it now, or do o have to wait until the fall? And if I have to wait, how do I know when they're ready?

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Good question . Hard to break inhibitors. Dirr says 30 to 60 days warm strat followed by 150+ days cold . Or scarification then 60 warm 90 to 120 cold . Seeds mature late sept . Here in Ottawa . I tried natural strat ( picked seeds late winter still on tree ) 48 hour warm water soak and plant 150 plus seeds . This spring . There still in the trays got exactly 0 . June cuttings 10 got 2 . Was going to try fresh seeds this sept and just sow in trays place in winter storage . But found found a small local nursery had 2 cultivars of flame ( small leaf shrub like great red fall colour ) last 2 33$ End of June sale 25% off 5 gallon pots about 2.5 feet tall estimate 4 years old says he will have more next year . At that price I may not bother . Left in nursery pots heavily fert they are doing great repot in spring End result will stick with them . If I was you I would go for cuttings in June seems more reliable . Air layer apparently is easy Olson

 

[yashu]

You would think they’d be easier to propagate considering they are labeled “invasive” in many areas. Are there any spots near the parent plants that seedlings tend to pop up in spring? It could be easier to collect those rather than dealing with the process of germination.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

You would think they’d be easier to propagate considering they are labeled “invasive” in many areas. Are there any spots near the parent plants that seedlings tend to pop up in spring? It could be easier to collect those rather than dealing with the process of germination.

Agreed I’m betting it’s just a extended time thing . The ones from this spring will go in storage . Thinking some will sprout in spring . But like I said with quality cultivars avail cheap

 

[yashu]

Agreed I’m betting it’s just a extended time thing . The ones from this spring will go in storage . Thinking some will sprout in spring . But like I said with quality cultivars avail cheap

Yeah, I picked up my acer ginnala “flame” as an inexpensive rooted cutting and it has taken off. I have taken some cuttings from it as well so we’ll see how that goes.

 

[Shibui]

Many seeds are mature enough to germinate well before they reach fully ripe. Germination inhibitors are often the last to develop as the seeds mature so green seed will sometimes germinate without any treatment if picked and sown late summer. Problem is you will then have young seedlings trying to survive winter which is the reason these species have inhibitors. Immature seed may not survive storage.
Generally wait until seeds turn brown and begin to fall. For maples this often coincides with leaf fall but a few species drop seeds before so keep an eye on them to pick maturity.

Natural stratification is often best and easier. Sow seeds when you pick them and leave trays outdoors through winter. Seedlings begin to emerge as weather warms in spring as they have evolved to do. Protect seed trays from seed eaters - mice, birds, etc.

 

[NaoTK]

Is "keys" a Canadian or British English word?

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I thought British was English . I have heard winged seeds like maple pine and spruce referred to as Keys . I assume from the similarity to the shape of a key . But have no idea as to the origin of the word . I would lean toward something from the old world . And not Canadian

 

[Lorax7]

I had a branch break off my Amur maple the last week of April (tree fell off the table). I used my grafting knife to make the cuts on the end clean, put some rooting powder on it, stuck it in bonsai soil, and put it in a shady spot. It’s alive and growing well. I don’t know if I was just lucky or if that happened to be good timing for propagating a hardwood cutting, but it’s a good enough anecdotal experience to suggest perhaps it’s worth trying to propagate a larger group of cuttings around that time and see what happens.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I had a branch break off my Amur maple the last week of April (tree fell off the table). I used my grafting knife to make the cuts on the end clean, put some rooting powder on it, stuck it in bonsai soil, and put it in a shady spot. It’s alive and growing well. I don’t know if I was just lucky or if that happened to be good timing for propagating a hardwood cutting, but it’s a good enough anecdotal experience to suggest perhaps it’s worth trying to propagate a larger group of cuttings around that time and see what happens.

Agreed as I said info I researched said . Seeds are difficult to break inhibitors . Probable due to its very cold native range . Wants to make sure it’s spring . But cuttings are known to have high success misting is recommended . My 20 percent cuttings did not receive great care . Cut in June stuck in a tray placed in shade left all leaves on cuttings so I’m sure can easily be improved on . If I attempt seeds again this year will just plant in fall in a flower bed or pot see what happens in spring considering there extreme cold resistant . I’m really starting to like the 2 flame cultivars I have first time with these trees considering there small tree size and trunk diameter expected . Slow growth but there very vigorous and have nice new growth yellow/ slight red foliage colour turning to dark green

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Is "keys" a Canadian or British English word?

My latest old English word I like is Dunnage . If something arrives in a crate or box or package . When you unpack all the left over packaging is Dunnage . I guess because your dun with it

 

[rodeolthr]

My understanding is that winged seeds, such as maples, are called samaras......but whatever works. Don't confuse a seed passing through the winter hanging on the tree as a "stratified seed". The stratification process typically involves the seeds being in a moist environment while also chilled. The reason that acer ginnala and others like acer negundo often seem to germinate so readily is that the seeds will hang on the trees late into winter. At some point they detach and fall onto the snow or moist soil. There is often a long enough window for them to naturally stratify after they detach. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

My understanding is that winged seeds, such as maples, are called samaras......but whatever works. Don't confuse a seed passing through the winter hanging on the tree as a "stratified seed". The stratification process typically involves the seeds being in a moist environment while also chilled. The reason that acer ginnala and others like acer negundo often seem to germinate so readily is that the seeds will hang on the trees late into winter. At some point they detach and fall onto the snow or moist soil. There is often a long enough window for them to naturally stratify after they detach. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Makes complete sense to me . My attempt with late winter seeds on tree was a experiment . Found tree in container outside office building in zone 4 with tight internode length

 

[SC1989]

I've had good results by- plant them in the fall. Or keep them cold and dry until spring, then peel some wings off and soak. Sometimes it helps to put them back in the fridge for a couple weeks while moist. Do not store moist unless frozen, they'll rot

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Note: in Japanese maples, seed harvested moist, at above 80% moisture, simple 90 days cold stratification is enough to get seed to sprout in spring. If JM seed is allowed to dry below 75% moisture, a requirement for a 60 day warm stratification followed by a 90 day cold stratification is needed to get seed to sprout. Key point is how seed is handled makes a difference in whether it needs just a cold stratification or both a warm and a cold stratification.

I don't know the stratification needs in particular of Amur maple.

I would do what I had done for some Ostrya virginiana seed. This is the "au natural" approach.

Prepare a flat with media, I used perlite & bark blend, but use what ever your favorite blend is that will last 3 years without having to be replaced. DE8822, Turface, what every you like. Key is your are not going to disturb it for several years.

Fit the flat with a wire mesh, I used 1/4 hardware cloth to keep out squirrels, birds and mice. Varmints will want to eat your seed.

Harvest seed, I would wait until seed is obviously ripe but still a "little bit green". With the Ostrya, it was well after first frost fully ripe, it had dried out.

Plant the seed in the flat, close and wire down the mesh top to exclude varmints. Set flat out in a 1/2 to full sun location in the garden where you can keep it watered. Leave it alone all winter.

Now with Ostrya, it turns out it needed a warm stratification. So the flat laid out in the garden all summer. Once in a while I would pull weeds that might have sprouted. Ostrya seedlings look like elm seedlings, so it was easy to spot the dandelions.

End of summer, no signs of life, I simply left the flat lay where it was. Ostrya thrive in the wild, no point in messing around with the flat. Left the flat out through the second winter. Boom, second spring, the flat was dense with Ostrya seedlings. All coming up through the hardware mesh. In autumn, after leaves fell off the seedlings, I lifted the hardware mesh off the seedlings.

I still have half a dozen or so 6 year old Ostrya, otherwise known as the hop flowered hornbeam.

The simple method, just put seed in a flat, put the flat on the ground outside and let nature germinate the seed, whether it takes one season or two seasons, really doesn't matter, just leave the flat lay. Weed out anything that doesn't look like a maple.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Amurs have the longest requirements of any maple I have germinated...

I do..

Samara/wing removal and overnight soak in hot-at-the-start water.

Then, 60 days, at 70-75 DegF in peroxide-soaked paper towel.

Swap towel, then 120 days, at 34-35 DegF.
(Swap towel at 60)

.. Very good results...(even considering my localized germination issues)

My favorite Acer!!!

I started with a plethora of seeds, this year, but had poor germination ACROSS THE BOARD (all species, all sources)

We had about 100 Ginnala Seedlings...

After 'selection' of prime stock/culling, and one chipmunk attack...

We're left with 20(ish) DECENT specimens...
(One being observed for dwarf)

Only the 'best' will continue ... For We cannot SELL Ginnala as landscape stock, here, so my huge interest in them is singular.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Note: in Japanese maples, seed harvested moist, at above 80% moisture, simple 90 days cold stratification is enough to get seed to sprout in spring. If JM seed is allowed to dry below 75% moisture, a requirement for a 60 day warm stratification followed by a 90 day cold stratification is needed to get seed to sprout. Key point is how seed is handled makes a difference in whether it needs just a cold stratification or both a warm and a cold stratification.

I don't know the stratification needs in particular of Amur maple.

I would do what I had done for some Ostrya virginiana seed. This is the "au natural" approach.

Prepare a flat with media, I used perlite & bark blend, but use what ever your favorite blend is that will last 3 years without having to be replaced. DE8822, Turface, what every you like. Key is your are not going to disturb it for several years.

Fit the flat with a wire mesh, I used 1/4 hardware cloth to keep out squirrels, birds and mice. Varmints will want to eat your seed.

Harvest seed, I would wait until seed is obviously ripe but still a "little bit green". With the Ostrya, it was well after first frost fully ripe, it had dried out.

Plant the seed in the flat, close and wire down the mesh top to exclude varmints. Set flat out in a 1/2 to full sun location in the garden where you can keep it watered. Leave it alone all winter.

Now with Ostrya, it turns out it needed a warm stratification. So the flat laid out in the garden all summer. Once in a while I would pull weeds that might have sprouted. Ostrya seedlings look like elm seedlings, so it was easy to spot the dandelions.

End of summer, no signs of life, I simply left the flat lay where it was. Ostrya thrive in the wild, no point in messing around with the flat. Left the flat out through the second winter. Boom, second spring, the flat was dense with Ostrya seedlings. All coming up through the hardware mesh. In autumn, after leaves fell off the seedlings, I lifted the hardware mesh off the seedlings.

I still have half a dozen or so 6 year old Ostrya, otherwise known as the hop flowered hornbeam.

The simple method, just put seed in a flat, put the flat on the ground outside and let nature germinate the seed, whether it takes one season or two seasons, really doesn't matter, just leave the flat lay. Weed out anything that doesn't look like a maple.

I listed what Dirr strat is for Amur earlier . Long cold strat but it’s dam cold in its native range . Tree must have adapted to make sure it’s spring . Ostrya V. I collected a rock crack tree ( stump with 3 branches )my first round of bonsai . I really enjoyed the tree best part for bonsai is unique growth . As a shoot grows the leaves get bigger progressively . So for small leaves you just prune back . Also a good identifier in the wild . Going to collect another beaver trimmed one in the spring . At my cottage . Found mid summer . After all I’m Canadian and there the original hockey stick wood growing from seed sounds interesting to add trunk movement because there wood is hard as hell . To move when mature . Also a understory tree so reasonable small trunks exist with nature bark . Going to cut some back and see what develops . Fun tree . Nice yellow fall colour

 

[SC1989]

Note: in Japanese maples, seed harvested moist, at above 80% moisture, simple 90 days cold stratification is enough to get seed to sprout in spring. If JM seed is allowed to dry below 75% moisture, a requirement for a 60 day warm stratification followed by a 90 day cold stratification is needed to get seed to sprout. Key point is how seed is handled makes a difference in whether it needs just a cold stratification or both a warm and a cold stratification.

I don't know the stratification needs in particular of Amur maple.

I would do what I had done for some Ostrya virginiana seed. This is the "au natural" approach.

Prepare a flat with media, I used perlite & bark blend, but use what ever your favorite blend is that will last 3 years without having to be replaced. DE8822, Turface, what every you like. Key is your are not going to disturb it for several years.

Fit the flat with a wire mesh, I used 1/4 hardware cloth to keep out squirrels, birds and mice. Varmints will want to eat your seed.

Harvest seed, I would wait until seed is obviously ripe but still a "little bit green". With the Ostrya, it was well after first frost fully ripe, it had dried out.

Plant the seed in the flat, close and wire down the mesh top to exclude varmints. Set flat out in a 1/2 to full sun location in the garden where you can keep it watered. Leave it alone all winter.

Now with Ostrya, it turns out it needed a warm stratification. So the flat laid out in the garden all summer. Once in a while I would pull weeds that might have sprouted. Ostrya seedlings look like elm seedlings, so it was easy to spot the dandelions.

End of summer, no signs of life, I simply left the flat lay where it was. Ostrya thrive in the wild, no point in messing around with the flat. Left the flat out through the second winter. Boom, second spring, the flat was dense with Ostrya seedlings. All coming up through the hardware mesh. In autumn, after leaves fell off the seedlings, I lifted the hardware mesh off the seedlings.

I still have half a dozen or so 6 year old Ostrya, otherwise known as the hop flowered hornbeam.

The simple method, just put seed in a flat, put the flat on the ground outside and let nature germinate the seed, whether it takes one season or two seasons, really doesn't matter, just leave the flat lay. Weed out anything that doesn't look like a maple.

Nature is best. Up north, warm strat is fall. Plenty of cold time too! If you fridge them, just follow what @HorseloverFat said .

 

[Frozentreehugger]

This is round 2 of bonsai for me . And I’ll never see 55 again . Nothing wrong with growing from seed . Lots think otherwise but not me . But my goals have changed . I grow from seed what I can’t get otherwise . Or for a project example root over rock needs young plants . Also consider I am Canadian the importation of lives trees . From another country including the USA is not practical below the nursery quantity level . In the case of Amur maple I planted some seeds that have not sprouted . They will be the only ones I plant . I purchased 2 cultivars of flame 3 gallon nursery containers late spring . Multi branched . I estimate about 4 to 5 years old each on sale 25 percent off they were under 20 $ and have flourished heavily fertilized . Considering next year I can get more . The fact that seeds are difficult they grow from cuttings easy and air layer well . I see no reason to grow from seed . And have to admit if I had access to nursery stock avail in USA there is very little I would grow from seed . But I will say that those that say it is a waste of time and not worth doing . Have not tried it

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Sprouting seedlings, is its own sort of enjoyment. It's the "nurseryman" phase of the hobby. And raising seedlings for bonsai is slightly different than for landscape nursery