When to Start Fertilizing

Adamantium

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Hi all! I'm getting mixed messages about fertilization. Some sources seem to say to wait until spring growth hardens off, while others say to start fertilizing as soon as growth starts.

Michael Hagedorn here writes that you should fertilize pre-bonsai as soon as growth starts. All of my trees are pre-bonsai, so should I start fertilizing now?
 

Adair M

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Hi all! I'm getting mixed messages about fertilization. Some sources seem to say to wait until spring growth hardens off, while others say to start fertilizing as soon as growth starts.

Michael Hagedorn here writes that you should fertilize pre-bonsai as soon as growth starts. All of my trees are pre-bonsai, so should I start fertilizing now?
Yes.
 

yenling83

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@Adair M is very knowledgeable and is correct! Love reading his threads. In general Spring is when you start fertilizing.

Many factors will affect the amount of fertilizer you use and when you start fertilizing and stop fertilizing. In general, think about what your trying to accomplish this year with the tree you are going to fertilize. Are you trying to thickin branches? grow out a new leader? Then you want to fertilize more and probably start earlier. Or are you working on fine twig-iness/ramification of the branches? Then you likely want to fertilize less and or start later.

But, yes starting in spring for most trees is when you want to start. There are certain techniques for certain types of trees in specific stages of development-for example White Pine, where you might not start fertilizing until around fall in order to maintain short needles. However, in general and the most simple answer is yup -start fertilizing in Spring.
 
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Hi all! I'm getting mixed messages about fertilization. Some sources seem to say to wait until spring growth hardens off, while others say to start fertilizing as soon as growth starts.

Michael Hagedorn here writes that you should fertilize pre-bonsai as soon as growth starts. All of my trees are pre-bonsai, so should I start fertilizing now?
I wait for vigourous growth not just when the first leaves appear.
 

Adair M

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I wait for vigourous growth not just when the first leaves appear.
He said all his trees were pre-bonsai. In which case, he needs growth and vigor.

You, on the other hand, have some very nice refined bonsai. Those, require a more measured approach.

Like always: It depends.
 

River's Edge

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Excellent points above. As well consider the climate, you may wish to remove fertilizer in very hot or dry spells. Re apply in the fall to prep a tree for winter, or apply even earlier in the spring in prep for decandling.
We have a longer spell of hot and dry towards the end of summer, so we often remove fertilizer as some trees become pretty dormant during that time.
Also the rate can vary, starting slow and building up, particularly for vigorous growth in Pre- Bonsai and young developing trees.
It Depends
 

sorce

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Those Avatar photos are 2 similar for to Ada's! Good thing for Twisted Trees or we may have 3!

For Pre-Bonsai....

The biggest "it depends" for me is their growth habit.
Of course, this takes an understanding of fertilizer I have yet to observe, but text gives some things to consider while making these observations for each of your individual pre-bonsai...

They Say Fert, or overfert, can lead to long internodes....so on a maple, if you are trying to build a "next trunk segment", you may get it very quickly with a lot of fert, but with a stretch of 6inches with no nodes, without grafting, you'll never get branches in that entire segment.

But lets say you plan to build that next section next year....and are using this year to JUST fert pump....fert away, since everything will be cut off.

Even on trees that WILL pop buds away from nodes..Elm...they are more likely to pop buds at nodes...so even then it is better to grow slow.

So basically, in early spring, its almost always better to wait....let that first growth come out slow and tight....since it is usually what we cut back to, and fert the rest of the year.

Then of course.....

What kind of fertilizer are you using?
That depends too....

New cakes applied and you're not really feeding right now anyway.
Chemicals? You may or may not be! Lol!

May not be?

Again....it took me 7 years to witness GROWTH as directly related to fert....
Last summer/fall I witnessed HEALTH from a year of much fish that smelled like fish.

But Growth...like..fert = growth ...water = living....I only witnessed this winter....

KEY? It didn't smell like fish, it smells like sewage....
It is already broken down, the nutrients are more readily available.

This is Soooooo important to note ....

All these ferts are meant for Dirt.

Even Biogold or any Japanese fert isn't what it is without AKADAMA.

HYDROPONICS nutrients are designed for water.

But what is the fertilizer that is designed for modern substrate? (MG sells potting soil, not modern substrate)

The closest would be one built for a rise and fall hydro system yes? Are these the same hydro nutrients? If so I would argue a constant contact hydro system would work better, and a proper fert for our modern substrate has yet to be designed.

I steered away from MASS chems because I never witnessed growth.
I don't "see" it working.

What I DO "SEE" is a direct correlation between a very dry soil....watered often...
Causing the tiniest of root tips to die and branch, each watering.

Same as a colander, making many fine feeder roots, just Inside the soil.

All those fine roots thriving in an environment full of water and oxygen...
I "see" that powering very healthy growth.
With a "chemical reverse placebo" so strong, of you stop using chems you stop getting the growth. But that's the power of the mind, and our very real connection to our trees.

Argue it....shade, shelter, food, water, clothing, weapons, vantage points, a toilet....

Our relationship with trees is deeper than we Remember.

The trees are not so plagued by the human condition.

They have not forgotten this long ongoing relationship.

As soon as I listened to man less...
And the trees more...
Everything started working better.

But I WILL continue to rot my fish (not a cool dry place!) and fert....


Not how the DasEfx rhyme pattern is the same as a spring branch.
Kiggity close nodes that get a little longer.

Sorce
 

baron

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I don't have any or much experience in the matter but I'm somewhat in the same position (pre-bonsai or building trunks phase).

I did repot most of my trees when the buds started to swell so for now I just gave them slow release Biogold fertilizer (about half the recommended dose). In about 4/6 weeks I will give them another dose and start giving them Liquid fertilizer bi-weekly. http://www.bonsai.de/mineral-bonsai-fertilizer-mairol-p-71.html?language=en

Only my azalea's get a different liquid Fert.

Hope I'm not overfeeding them :confused:
 

Lazylightningny

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Ryan Neal has a great (free) video on his web site on this subject. Regarding organic fertilizers, there should always be some on the plant. Since it takes around four weeks for the nutrients to be available to the plant, organic feed that you put on the plant in the winter should now be available to the plant for use.
 

Adamantium

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organic feed that you put on the plant in the winter should now be available to the plant for use.
I thought you weren't supposed to feed over the winter?

And I'm using osmocote in tea bags, so definitely a chemical fert.
 

Adair M

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Sorce,

Let me see if I can straighten out some of your circular reasoning! Lol!!!

(I have low expectations of my chances of success. But here goes!)

The use of akadama has little to do with fertilizing. It’s the use of an inorganic soil mix, regardless of its akadama component, or lack thereof, that’s important. So, the approach is to use organic fertilizers with an inorganic soil mix. Generally speaking, organic ferts are less potent and slower to be absorbed than the chemical salts.

There’s two basic types of inorganic ferts, wet and dry. The wets are stuff like fish emulsion, and the drys are ground up meals or cakes made from ground up meals. The dry ferts are slower acting because their nutrients must be leached out of them, like a tea. Every thine they get wet, a little more tea gets made and filters down into the soil. Once this starts happening, the tree can absorb the nutrients. In some cases, the nutrients must be first used by microrhyzzae and then fed to the tree, but you get the idea. An application of dry ferts lasts about a month, and then the good stuff is pretty much leached out, and all that’s left is the dregs.

So, a good method is to put the organic ferts in a tea bag so the tea passes thru, and the detritus can be contained in the tea bag to be discarded.

So, to maintain a steady supply of ferts in the pot, and to ramp up slowly in order to avoid shocking the tree with too much of a good thing (as can easily happen with the salts kind of fertilizers like Miracle Grow) start with two tea bags. A week later add two more, and two more the third week. On the fourth week, remove the two put on first, and replace with two new ones. On a really big tree, start with more bags and add more each week. This keeps the supply of fertilizer constant once it ramps up from none to a full dose.

So, this approach avoids the issue of over feeding those early buds causing them to blow out really long shoots.

Oh, the wet fert? Fish emulsion is what I use, and I give the trees a dose once a week throughout the spring, summer, and fall. It’s fairly mild, but the nitrogen is more readily available than the dry ferts. The trees seem to love it.
 

M. Frary

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I start as soon as I see green.
I use miracle grow exclusively.
No organics whatsoever.
No pests.
No smell.
Just growth.
Most trees get 5 times the amount prescribed on the box.
Every week.
Some get it twice per week.
I keep my trees in full sun all day long.
I don't get long internodes.
Because of all of the sun.
For pines closer to refinement I use less.
Keeps the needles short.
Deciduous get blasted.
Check out Walter Palls article on watering and fertilizing.
It's all you need to know on the subject.
 

M. Frary

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Fertilizer threads are like soil threads. The truth is, almost any fertilizing regime will work.
It's why I always toss out my spiel. There are lots of ways to skin cats.
A little variety to choose from.
And nothing about soil or fertilizer is written in stone.
It comes down to preference.
Fertilizer is fertilizer.
The tree doesn't care if it came from a box or a fish's butt.
 

Adair M

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It's why I always toss out my spiel. There are lots of ways to skin cats.
A little variety to choose from.
And nothing about soil or fertilizer is written in stone.
It comes down to preference.
Fertilizer is fertilizer.
The tree doesn't care if it came from a box or a fish's butt.
That’s true, Mike. But with the chems, it’s a LOT easier to apply too much and burn your tree by accident.
 

GrimLore

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That’s true, Mike. But with the chems, it’s a LOT easier to apply too much and burn your tree by accident.

Well... AND I AM NOT Starting anything, just further discussion -

How can we over fertilize with liquid ferts? In proper substrate having good drainage I find it impossible at 7 - 10 times normal which is even more then @M. Frary . That was back when I was using fully inorganic mix(s) but I still do over fertilize in organics, just less...

So "It depends" on a broad variety of circumstances, or? Again, curious is all based on what I see.

Grimmy
 

M. Frary

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7 - 10 times normal which is even more then @M. Frary .
Thats a pretty stout mix.
I haven't burned a tree yet.
And some of mine are in regular dirt from collection.
Those get the heavy dose too.
No adverse effects,except pine needles get long.
I don't have long internodes nor huge leaves on deciduous trees.
Just very healthy,disease free trees.
 

GrimLore

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Thats a pretty stout mix.
I haven't burned a tree yet.
And some of mine are in regular dirt from collection.
Those get the heavy dose too.
No adverse effects,except pine needles get long.
I don't have long internodes nor huge leaves on deciduous trees.
Just very healthy,disease free trees.

Understood, and what is even more interesting I use a straight 20-20-20 with micronutrients, a bit stronger overall to 24-8-16 Miracle Grow...

Like I said, if the drainage is correct allowing enough air, etc... I find it impossible to over fertilize.

Pretty certain @Walter Pall stated a big problem people have is under fertilizing which I stand behind, no matter what the substrate is.

Grimmy
 
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