When you die, what will become of your trees? Curious who's got this planned!

[Forsoothe!]

View attachment 223392

OK, I'm stumped.

 

[jonathanvperth]

I like how many people are just concerned about the money. Who says anyone would even buy your stuff!!! You are dead anyways greedy Gus!!!!

I’ve told my wife to donate everything to the local club that I’m not even associated with.

 

[Silentrunning]

Most of my trees and pots will go to the Triangle Bonsai Society to be sold at their annual auction. My kids may keep 1 or 2.

 

[Dav4]

I like how many people are just concerned about the money. Who says anyone would even buy your stuff!!! You are dead anyways greedy Gus!!!!

I’ve told my wife to donate everything to the local club that I’m not even associated with.

How much time and money have you invested in the hobby? What's your most expensive purchase? Just wondering...

 

[leatherback]

I like how many people are just concerned about the money. Who says anyone would even buy your stuff!!! You are dead anyways greedy Gus!!!!

I’ve told my wife to donate everything to the local club that I’m not even associated with.

This discussion changes a little if we are talking about the value of annual salaries for individual trees, or trees that in itself value a monthly salary. If you leave behgind a family, don't you want to ensure they remain well taken care off?

Furthermore, if you have trees in your care for decades, you might want o ensure they go to people who know how to care for them, and not are handeed to a beginner that kills it in the first heatwave.

My 2p

 

[Forsoothe!]

The problem with clubs and OPT (Other People's Trees) is that the window to save the trees before they are killed by the uninitiated watering late/wrong/poorly/excessively/not at all, that window closes muy pronto. Little trees in little pots are the first to go. I live 60 miles portal-to-portal away from the club meeting place, and the membership is all over the map, but few in my direction. Exactly, which members are going to take the time out of their lives to come and fetch my stuff? I run the club's raffle, and people donate stuff to me that I have to store until I can work it into the schedule, and it's a pain. When I have to keep trees won in the Show raffle to the public until I can cross paths with the winners, I have to worry about the tree dying or getting damaged "On My Watch" and I hate that part. I do it because I have volunteered to do that crap, but I don't like it. Knowing all that. Tell me again just how many people are going to show up and take on the responsibility, timely, and keep these trees for a month or two? You can count them on the toes of both hands...

This discussion changes a little if we are talking about the value of annual salaries for individual trees, or trees that in itself value a monthly salary. If you leave behgind a family, don't you want to ensure they remain well taken care off?

Furthermore, if you have trees in your care for decades, you might want o ensure they go to people who know how to care for them, and not are handed to a beginner that kills it in the first heatwave.

My 2p

Absolutely my first concern is for the continuation of my work. Not that I'm a big shooter, but my icon Tamarack forest is in a $300 pot custom made for it. The trees were collected in the mid-90's by a mentor, who gave them to me 16 years ago with instructions of how to arrange them. The biggest tree had cones on it last year. They need to be 40 to 45 years old for cones. He was an old-timer and died a few years back, and I miss him. I have a lot of trees and pots and mats and display stands and accoutrements. My best tree is a J. chinensis ~about 125 years old. What's it worth? I don't ask, it ain't for sale, -over my dead body. It's in a 20" pot. A real crowd pleaser!

 

[Vance Wood]

Mine would be toast...none of them (husband and boys) have an interest. Though, my husband lays claim to a few he has no desire to tend them. I would hope a friend in the hobby seeing on a social post would offer direction say if it was sudden. If I knew ahead of time my short end was near, I would offer some possibly to ones I felt would care for them...or sell them off on an auction. I have intentions if joining a club in the spring...so my answer could change in the future.

My advise to you if you care about your trees and you think you are looking that situation in the face is to take care of it before it becomes a problem. My son loves the Drunken Dragon but he has no clue how to take care of this tree so I am going to be looking at similar problems.

 

[Forsoothe!]

The Grim Reaper dosen't always give you a "heads up"... I don't expect to die soon, but I may before I finish thi.....

 

[rockm]

Look, if you spend tens of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars, I WOULD NOT expect to get ANY of that $$ back on the resale of your trees after you have passed. Your trees will mostly be a nuisance to your heirs (and 99.9 percent of your kids have ABSOLUTELY NO interest in your bonsai, much less watering them--even though they tell you they do.).

If you croak suddenly, your trees will most likely die in your backyard, unless you have told your spouse, or adult children, or close relative, who to call to come get them, AND have someone knowledgeable to water the trees while that percolates.

That tree with all the sentimental value? It's going to be sold for about a fifth to a third (if you're lucky) what you paid/put into it. And BTW, a $300 or a $3000 pot is worth about $10 or less at a yard sale or second hand store...also BTW, $300 is not all that much for a custom pot...just sayin...Depending on the maker, you probably won't get you $$ back out of that pot.

All this sounds dark and pessimistic. It can be, as I have seen similar happen with a lot of things in settling two estates over the last couple of years. It's also more realistic than thinking your kids will take up bonsai to save your trees, or by some miracle someone who sees your genius sells your trees for top dollar because they have a "history."

Bottom line, everyone overvalues their trees and bonsai stuff. When the "man comes around," everything you own is going into the second hand bin, including your trees, unless they have spectacular DOCUMENTED provenance, like attribution to John Naka, etc.

Best thing you can do is tell your spouse who she can turn to in the closest club or bonsai shop to sell the trees outright or consign them. Do that BEFORE you're too feeble to pick up your heaviest tree. If you want to get $$ from what you spent, it's better to start selling stuff off NOW, or when you're well able to sell it, rather than wait. YOU know what you've got and what you paid and probably who will buy it...

 

[Deleted member 21616]

And BTW, a $300 or a $3000 pot is worth about $10 or less at a yard sale or second hand store...also BTW, $300 is not all that much for a custom pot...just sayin...Depending on the maker, you probably won't get you $$ back out of that pot.

I have already sold pots for more than I have paid for them. i think many people on this forum have. I speak to some of the facebook vendors (pete, matt, nel) more often than I do some of my friends. I would trust them with selling my pots on behalf of my family members. I don't think that it's realistic to feel that your family will be forced to sell your $300 pot for $10, let alone a $3000 pot for that little. moreover, I consider some of my pots to be investments that will increase in value.

i've seen your pots and I like them! so please give your family my contact information, I will gladly give them $20 for each pot they were planning to sell for $10!

as for trees, i agree with you. most of us are hobbiests, not professionals, even if we hold as our ideal those professional standards. my hobby trees do not (and will never) belong in museums, nor will they command extraordinary prices. I'll be happy if somebody from a local club wants to take them and remember that Derek from Montreal put 40-50 yrs into them. When Dennis won best deciduous this year, he was quick to mention that his winning maple of 70+ yrs was not in his possession for even half of that time, and he mentioned the name of whoever had it before him, which no one will remember. i would be happy to be that nobody.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Look, if you spend tens of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars, I WOULD NOT expect to get ANY of that $$ back on the resale of your trees after you have passed. Your trees will mostly be a nuisance to your heirs (and 99.9 percent of your kids have ABSOLUTELY NO interest in your bonsai, much less watering them--even though they tell you they do.).

If you croak suddenly, your trees will most likely die in your backyard, unless you have told your spouse, or adult children, or close relative, who to call to come get them, AND have someone knowledgeable to water the trees while that percolates.

That tree with all the sentimental value? It's going to be sold for about a fifth to a third (if you're lucky) what you paid/put into it. And BTW, a $300 or a $3000 pot is worth about $10 or less at a yard sale or second hand store...also BTW, $300 is not all that much for a custom pot...just sayin...Depending on the maker, you probably won't get you $$ back out of that pot.

All this sounds dark and pessimistic. It can be, as I have seen similar happen with a lot of things in settling two estates over the last couple of years. It's also more realistic than thinking your kids will take up bonsai to save your trees, or by some miracle someone who sees your genius sells your trees for top dollar because they have a "history."

Bottom line, everyone overvalues their trees and bonsai stuff. When the "man comes around," everything you own is going into the second hand bin, including your trees, unless they have spectacular DOCUMENTED provenance, like attribution to John Naka, etc.

Best thing you can do is tell your spouse who she can turn to in the closest club or bonsai shop to sell the trees outright or consign them. Do that BEFORE you're too feeble to pick up your heaviest tree. If you want to get $$ from what you spent, it's better to start selling stuff off NOW, or when you're well able to sell it, rather than wait. YOU know what you've got and what you paid and probably who will buy it...

I'm afraid you didn't read me right. The club angle works poorly. I've seen it over and over, people do not respond quickly enough and trees are lost. In fact, the arrangement has been made. I'm not looking to break even, I'm insuring that they go to people willing to buy them from a bonsai shop. My arrangement will work because I have discussed it with my family and my vendor. One phone call and the deed is done. No volunteers needing prodding to screw-up their personal lives for the dead guy. Remember, transporting a large number of bonsai in delicate pots is no small matter. This is a guy who knows me and my stuff who sells it for a living and will make a profit on the transaction. It will be a bonus for my wife.

 

[rockm]

I'm in my mid-30's although obviously death doesn't really care what age you are, anyways....I hope it doesn't come across as morbid as I've simply thought of this in-context of the trees' futures and not of my/others' demise(demises? can't word today) however this is something where I'm guessing that, were they to die, that there could be a surprising-% of known-names, big & beautiful collections, there's no specific (or even general!) plan in-place for the 'smooth passage' of their collection to another, competent party.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I want to stress this is a "trees in-perpetuity" theme/context/whatever, I am not sick or anything and don't know anyone who is at the moment, nothing morbid sparked this I just considered how I disliked the idea of having my trees sold off, to the highest bidder or something, to some knuckleheads who don't know the difference between soil & substrates, at my passing....my thought was that, at some point, I'll just choose somebody and ask them if they'd be willing to take delivery, then just set it up so those who are in charge of my will (for my worldly possessions & estates, rofl) are aware that it's important said person be notified ASAP that they need to come collect!

Would love to hear your thoughts on this, I ponder Japanese trees that have been in a single family for generations and, were I to have kids, would certainly not even need to think about this as I'd have them in bonsai and they'd want my trees lol, but since I'm not expecting to be a father that's irrelevant to me so figured I'd ask for others' thoughts on this ;D

Happy New Year & hope you're all enjoying the remainder of your weekend!!!

I posted some general thoughts on this, but in more direct reply--

You may not like the idea of some "knucklehead" buying your trees, but if the trees don't die from neglect in the days after your demise, you can bet that the better ones will be sold off to whoever can pay for them, or offers the best price. If you're lucky, someone will pony up some cash (probably not a lot of cash--like under $100 for the best ones). Triple digit pricing will only be good IF you've lined up a knowledgeable seller for your trees pre-croak. If you leave the selling up to your survivors, you can expect a lot of knuckleheads and low like below $50 prices for your showcase trees...

That's what happens when you sell stuff off after a death. Estate sales are FULL of knuckleheads with cash. They will buy just about anything, as long as it's under $10 or so. ;-)

As far as inflicting your trees on someone you love or know, I'd be cautious about asking. You'll more than likely get a "no" or a "hell no" response, unless the person you're asking knows how to care for bonsai and has the considerable space and time to take care of your trees. It's a big responsibility tied to your memory--the "what if I kill them?" question makes people nervous.

And I can tell you don't have kids. I do. No, kids are NOT interested in bonsai for the most part. For those that have an interest, its mostly passing and will fade about the time puberty kicks in. There are extremely rare 13 year olds that develop a lasting, intense interest in potted plants, but I've never met one. ;-)

 

[JudyB]

Assuming that he outlives me, I'll have Bill put a post here and let everyone fight over the remains...LOL.

Actually probably, he'd send a text to my study group members and Owen and there wouldn't be anything left after that.

 

[rockm]

I have already sold pots for more than I have paid for them. i think many people on this forum have. I speak to some of the facebook vendors (pete, matt, nel) more often than I do some of my friends. I would trust them with selling my pots on behalf of my family members. I don't think that it's realistic to feel that your family will be forced to sell your $300 pot for $10, let alone a $3000 pot for that little. moreover, I consider some of my pots to be investments that will increase in value.

i've seen your pots and I like them! so please give your family my contact information, I will gladly give them $20 for each pot they were planning to sell for $10!

as for trees, i agree with you. most of us are hobbiests, not professionals, even if we hold as our ideal those professional standards. my hobby trees do not (and will never) belong in museums, nor will they command extraordinary prices. I'll be happy if somebody from a local club wants to take them and remember that Derek from Montreal put 40-50 yrs into them. When Dennis won best deciduous this year, he was quick to mention that his winning maple of 70+ yrs was not in his possession for even half of that time, and he mentioned the name of whoever had it before him, which no one will remember. i would be happy to be that nobody.

Dude, I've sold pots for a lot more than I've paid for them. However, I WAS AROUND TO SELL THEM. Those pricy pots you think are an investment are only an investment IF YOU KNOW WHO TO SELL THEM TO and YOU ARE AROUND TO DO IT, or you have left explicit instructions on how to do so when you kick off. You wife/spouse/kids/executor aren't going to have that knowledge (or hell, the time) to get your money back.

Pots as an investment is mostly an illusion you set up when you pay top dollar for one IF you haven't got explicit LEGAL instructions on how to sell those pots off. I wouldn't bother if the pots are worth less than $500 a piece. Simply isn't worth inflicting that detailed duty on whoever is executing your will. Believe me, those kinds of intricate details ARE A PAIN IN THE ASS for your heirs...

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@JudyB can i call dibs on your namako koyo?

edit: to avoid inflicting detailed legal duties on anyone...

 

[JudyB]

@JudyB can i call dibs on your namako koyo?

edit: to avoid inflicting detailed legal duties on anyone...

You'd have to take it with the Korean Hornbeam that resides in it as well, hope that won't be too awful for you...

 

[Deleted member 21616]

You'd have to take it with the Korean Hornbeam that resides in it as well, hope that won't be too awful for you...

i'll apply for the phytosanitary certificate for importation to canada... the legal paperwork i was trying to avoid

 

[Vinnie Charity]

My 9 year old daughter will be getting all of my trees when I'm long gone and since she hates Bonsai, I'll instruct her to sell them all and put the money in her savings account to grow. Spend the interest on whatever you want but save the money...

 

[Nybonsai12]

I like how many people are just concerned about the money. Who says anyone would even buy your stuff!!! You are dead anyways greedy Gus!!!!

I’ve told my wife to donate everything to the local club that I’m not even associated with.

Ridiculous statement. My collection of trees and pots is modest, but i'd wager it's still worth a couple thousand(which is way less than what some folks here have).. I guess my wife and kids being without my income should just donate it away so as not to seem greedy....

 

[BackyardBonsai]

Hopefully my now 14 year old boy. He showed some interest in the hobby a fee years ago. But has since killed a bunch of larch from neglect. Hopefully the interest comes back well before the reaper is knocking on my door. If not I'd hope to know some younger people that I can't trust inheriting my trees. I'm in my late 30s and hope I got some time left to find these people.

At 14 and a boy... you know what is the only thing he interested in now.... Feel free to fill in the blank.