Where online to get different native Japanese bonsai material/seeds

Njyamadori

Shohin
Messages
398
Reaction score
252
Location
New Jersey
Today I got a book called “The ultimate Bonsai Handbook” and they use trees such as Ume , karin , kamatsuma , and many more but I don’t know where online I can buy all of them . So if you know or have any ideas please share !
 

Leo in N E Illinois

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,060
Reaction score
17,064
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
Ume = flowering plum, also called flowering apricot - the common names are misleading, it is not a plum and not an apricot. The botanical name for ume is Prunus mume, and it is widely available in USA bonsai circles. It is a unique species that is clearly in genus Prunus, but has features that make it distinctly different than either plum or apricot. It is grown for its flower in bonsai, but in Asia it is grown for its fruit which are often dried or pickled in a salty brine.

Karin = Pseudocydonia sinensis - Chinese quince - this is another that is pretty widely used in USA for bonsai. It is better for medium to large size bonsai, in the meter tall range. For smaller bonsai, use the flowering quince, Chaenomeles species and hybrids. Evergreen Gardenworks has a wide selection of Chaenomeles from cuttings. Affordable and excellent bonsai.

Kamatsuma - I am uncertain what botanical species this Japanese name translates to. Google translate yielded nonsense, "kiln wife" likely an idiom.

While generally species native to Japan do grow reasonably well in New Jersey, don't forget the many North American native species for bonsai. There is nothing magical about using Japanese natives, other than there are "pretty pictures" of them as bonsai.


One of the better sources of cutting grown (no ugly grafts) younger plants for bonsai is Evergreen Gardenworks.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
13,640
Reaction score
31,354
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Let’s start over...

You are a beginner, and those are rather advanced species.

I very strongly suggest you buy this book:


Jonas writes one of the best blogs on bonsai, and you should subscribe to it, too: www.bonsaitonight.com.

I stated before, and you should pay attention this time... stick to the basic material: Japanese Black Pine, Trident Maple, Japanese Maple, and Shimpaku Juniper.

Learn those first. There’s lots of information readily available, and plant material is easy to find, too.
 

MrWunderful

Omono
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
1,392
Location
SF Bay area
USDA Zone
10b
Most Ume bonsai shown in books, online displays etc are generally very old yamadori, or extremely well crafted trees that are also old. Super expensive, and out of reach for someone who has to ask how to find them.

Get a few years of some of the more commonly used species under your belt before you get into the more difficult types.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
13,640
Reaction score
31,354
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Most Ume bonsai shown in books, online displays etc are generally very old yamadori, or extremely well crafted trees that are also old. Super expensive, and out of reach for someone who has to ask how to find them.

Get a few years of some of the more commonly used species under your belt before you get into the more difficult types.
Heck, these specialty species are a challenge even for us experienced guys.
 

MrWunderful

Omono
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
1,392
Location
SF Bay area
USDA Zone
10b
Heck, these specialty species are a challenge even for us experienced guys.
I think one of the misconceptions that newer folks get with Ume/malus/flowering is that you get this amazing piece of material and every year its just a kokufu level show of flowers, when there is a specific way to prune, fertilize etc. and often time years in between “shows”.

I personally never (luckily) bought an amazing piece of material and killed it, but did kill one or two pieces of cheap nursery stock before i got some years under my belt.

Killed an awesome stewartia stock I got from Johnny Uchida at Grove Way bonsai for 40$ because I didnt know how to water, and they dont like my foggy climate. Bought it for the “flowers” too.
 

MrWunderful

Omono
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
1,392
Location
SF Bay area
USDA Zone
10b
Oh well thanks everyone for the advise
Dont let it discourage you.

Bonsai is a hobby (lifestyle?) of patience, and time.

I can Tell by your post that you’re enthusiastic, and that’s good I just want to temper your expectations- Because I was the same way when I first started (although I didnt visit a bonsai forum then).

Buy a cheap flowering cherry tree slap some wire on it and twist it into a bonsai. Close enough to an Ume for now 😉
 

Njyamadori

Shohin
Messages
398
Reaction score
252
Location
New Jersey
Dont let it discourage you.

Bonsai is a hobby (lifestyle?) of patience, and time.

I can Tell by your post that you’re enthusiastic, and that’s good I just want to temper your expectations- Because I was the same way when I first started (although I didnt visit a bonsai forum then).

Buy a cheap flowering cherry tree slap some wire on it and twist it into a bonsai. Close enough to an Ume for now 😉
Lol I have for the past 2 months about bonsai 😂 People here think that I think I can make good bonsai even though I know I can’t and probably not for at least 5 years. I thought that the ume would be an easy material to get and maintain. I only have 5 bonsai for now and I want more so I can work and get more experience on different trees . I’m guessing just easy stuff at Lowe’s or local plants i should start with then . Also is bonsai nut a good place to share my trees personally and get people’s opinions on them ?
 

MrWunderful

Omono
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
1,392
Location
SF Bay area
USDA Zone
10b
Lol I have for the past 2 months about bonsai 😂 People here think that I think I can make good bonsai even though I know I can’t and probably not for at least 5 years. I thought that the ume would be an easy material to get and maintain. I only have 5 bonsai for now and I want more so I can work and get more experience on different trees . I’m guessing just easy stuff at Lowe’s or local plants i should start with then . Also is bonsai nut a good place to share my trees personally and get people’s opinions on them ?

yes, its a great place to share. Just keep in mind that a seedling in a pot may be called a bonsai, but many enthusiasts may not consider it “bonsai” and you may get the response of “throw it in the ground for 5 years”- which is how some choose to grow and develop bonsai.

Alot of quality bonsai are grown from cheap stuff you would find at lowes- it just takes a long time.
 

TN_Jim

Omono
Messages
1,534
Reaction score
1,630
Location
Nashville TN
USDA Zone
7a
These fellas are legit good people who care about what they do...
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Masterpiece
Messages
3,526
Reaction score
5,535
Location
Netherlands
Here in Europe, ume are pretty cheap. Cuttings are 6-20 euros and established older plants are usually around 20-60 euros. That is.. From regular garden stores.
Chinese quince grow easily from seed or cutting.

You can always get a bunch of them and plant them in the yard until you feel you're ready. I think most people wish they did just that five years ago.

But I have to admit, I've spent two years with my ume and this year they flowered but never leafed out. They're not dead either. I'm pretty good with plants, but these are mysterious to me.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
13,640
Reaction score
31,354
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Sourcing good bonsai material is something of a dark art skill in itself. The qualities were look for in bonsai are often different than the qualities that traditional landscape nurseries value, so it can be difficult to find good “bonsai stock” at traditional landscape nurseries.

Some things that make good bonsai stock are: relatively thick trunk, good nebari, small leaves, short internodes, abundance of low branches, few scars, good taper. While it doesn’t have to have ALL those to be good stock, getting as many as possible makes the transition from “landscape material” to “bonsai” easier.

Some things to be wary of: ”named cultivars”. These will most often be grafted. Which may be blatantly obvious on the trunk, and will never look attractive. Sometimes the graft union will be buried under the soil, and you wont see it until you bring it home and find the nebari. Some named cultivars might have been propogated from cuttings, and that’s ok. Depends on the species of plant material.

Something else to be wary of are “variegated leaves”. You know, plants that have green and yellow or white stripes on the leaves? While they might provide visual interest in a back yard landscape, they just look out of place on a bonsai. Avoid.

Also avoid evergreen broadleaf trees with large leaves. They generally don’t reduce very well. For examaple, Magnolia. No matter what you do, those leaves will stay huge.

A good idea when evaluating whether a plant can be made into bonsai is to just google it! Let’s say you’re at Lowe’s and they have “Birds Nest Spruce” for sale. And they look pretty cute. Pull out the cell phone, google “birds nest spruce bonsai”, click the “images” tab, and look to see how many there are, and how they look. Be aware that sometimes google will mis-identify species, but you’ll get a good idea of what others have done with that Variety. That may help you determine if it is a suitable species.
 

Njyamadori

Shohin
Messages
398
Reaction score
252
Location
New Jersey
yes, its a great place to share. Just keep in mind that a seedling in a pot may be called a bonsai, but many enthusiasts may not consider it “bonsai” and you may get the response of “throw it in the ground for 5 years”- which is how some choose to grow and develop bonsai.

Alot of quality bonsai are grown from cheap stuff you would find at lowes- it just takes a long time.
Lol I know what “bonsai” your talking about . I couldn’t find any bigger seedlings but a couple days I did and I was so mad. I need to go to a nursery and get a couple trees and work with that because lately I never did that
 

keri-wms

Shohin
Messages
284
Reaction score
393
Location
S.E. UK
Ume = flowering plum, also called flowering apricot - the common names are misleading, it is not a plum and not an apricot. The botanical name for ume is Prunus mume, and it is widely available in USA bonsai circles. It is a unique species that is clearly in genus Prunus, but has features that make it distinctly different than either plum or apricot. It is grown for its flower in bonsai, but in Asia it is grown for its fruit which are often dried or pickled in a salty brine.

Karin = Pseudocydonia sinensis - Chinese quince - this is another that is pretty widely used in USA for bonsai. It is better for medium to large size bonsai, in the meter tall range. For smaller bonsai, use the flowering quince, Chaenomeles species and hybrids. Evergreen Gardenworks has a wide selection of Chaenomeles from cuttings. Affordable and excellent bonsai.

Kamatsuma - I am uncertain what botanical species this Japanese name translates to. Google translate yielded nonsense, "kiln wife" likely an idiom.

While generally species native to Japan do grow reasonably well in New Jersey, don't forget the many North American native species for bonsai. There is nothing magical about using Japanese natives, other than there are "pretty pictures" of them as bonsai.


One of the better sources of cutting grown (no ugly grafts) younger plants for bonsai is Evergreen Gardenworks.
I found the Kiln Wife! :D Pourthiaea villosa

Via https://www.bonsai-art-museum.jp/en/collection/a-121/
 

keri-wms

Shohin
Messages
284
Reaction score
393
Location
S.E. UK

Leo in N E Illinois

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,060
Reaction score
17,064
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
That's it !!!

So Japanese Kamatsuma = Photinia serratifolia = Pourthiaea villosa with Photinia serratifolia being the current accepted name. Cool.

I know Photinia, I've seen it planted everywhere as a landscape shrub in Georgia and Florida. The bright red new shoots in spring are really interesting. I vaguely recall that the large, glossy leaves don't reduce as well as one might like when used for small bonsai. Probably better for larger bonsai. For photos hit wikipedia.

 

Wires_Guy_wires

Masterpiece
Messages
3,526
Reaction score
5,535
Location
Netherlands
really? I have never seen them in garden centres! :(
When I got them two years ago, they were 6,45. They flowered in the first year, I layered two branches off, and they've been green and leafless ever since (this entire year).
Don't tell the rest of the bonsai community. Just tell them you have 'a source'. ;-)

Intratuin has them too, not the beni chi dori, but pinkish ones. I found one with a 5cm diameter base for 15 euros in the neglected corner. I didn't buy it though.
 

Similar threads

Top Bottom