Do they, why do so many people resort to grafting then...Trident maples will back bud nicely. You could chop straight across a little bit above your new leader. In the second pic, if you plan to use the top right branch as the new leader, you could cut on an angle towards the left branch.
So from the front view, the width of the trunk is not reduced by any chop? The trunk would go from the current 2+" to the new leader which is currently 1/8"? Adding 1 of the 2 angled chops would not be advisable, even if it provides some taper?Trident maples will back bud nicely. You could chop straight across a little bit above your new leader. In the second pic, if you plan to use the top right branch as the new leader, you could cut on an angle towards the left branch.
Grafting tridents? Personally, never saw that.Do they, why do so many people resort to grafting then...
My understanding is that the chop will be angled, the question is whether you do it now or follow up with the angle in a year or so. The taper from the "front" view will depend on the front used. Many people will hide the angled cut in the back because of the scarring. The transition from 2" to 1/8" is just a today thing - you need to grow out the new leader so that that taper is less drastic. When the 1/8" section is more like 1.5" (or a taper you like) then cut the leader back again to grow the next section and create more movement and taper.So from the front view, the width of the trunk is not reduced by any chop? The trunk would go from the current 2+" to the new leader which is currently 1/8"? Adding 1 of the 2 angled chops would not be advisable, even if it provides some taper?
'Trident maples will back bud nicely'Grafting tridents? Personally, never saw that.
My understanding is that the chop will be angled, the question is whether you do it now or follow up with the angle in a year or so. The taper from the "front" view will depend on the front used. Many people will hide the angled cut in the back because of the scarring. The transition from 2" to 1/8" is just a today thing - you need to grow out the new leader so that that taper is less drastic. When the 1/8" section is more like 1.5" (or a taper you like) then cut the leader back again to grow the next section and create more movement and taper.
Attached is a trident I am working on and that I cut back this spring. Buds are a poppin.
Is that the height of the final bottom trunk section you will keep?Grafting tridents? Personally, never saw that.
My understanding is that the chop will be angled, the question is whether you do it now or follow up with the angle in a year or so. The taper from the "front" view will depend on the front used. Many people will hide the angled cut in the back because of the scarring. The transition from 2" to 1/8" is just a today thing - you need to grow out the new leader so that that taper is less drastic. When the 1/8" section is more like 1.5" (or a taper you like) then cut the leader back again to grow the next section and create more movement and taper.
Attached is a trident I am working on and that I cut back this spring. Buds are a poppin.
To get branches and roots in EXACTLY the right places. They are so fast growing that grafting is pretty easy to do. Don't HAVE to do resort to grafts though.Do they, why do so many people resort to grafting then...
Sure. Its rare to see a trident or maple thread here that isnt a lesson in grafting though, it leaves me sorta questioning how readily these trees back bud up n down the trunks. options usually are limited, forcing people into grafting.To get branches and roots in EXACTLY the right places. They are so fast growing that grafting is pretty easy to do. Don't HAVE to do resort to grafts though.
To clarify my prior response - I never had an issue getting a trident maple to back bud from a bare trunk. My experience with JMs has not been the same - they sometimes bud only really low and sometimes they just don't bud. Now, getting buds where you want them is whole other story and tridents will likely need a bunch of grafts to get that done.Sure. Its rare to see a trident or maple thread here that isnt a lesson in grafting though, it leaves me sorta questioning how readily these trees back bud up n down the trunks. options usually are limited, forcing people into grafting.
I can think of a couple of reasons.Do they, why do so many people resort to grafting then...
I think for the majority of trees posted here, which are often very young, the last two points are a bit moot, but agree with 1 and 2.I can think of a couple of reasons.
1. The tree is not maintained in a condition that allows the tree to respond as well.
2. Buds are not occurring in the location a branch is desired.
3. The age of the tree makes it a better candidate for grafting in the desired location than bud back.
4. Grafting is often a faster route to rebuilding an older tree for example.
But then these factors are of consideration in any species that is known for easier " back budding".
Easy to agree with your comments from an idealistic point of view. As you quoted John Naka I believe. Unfortunately I come across a lot of trees that have been cared for in a basic elementary fashion for a long time and need or could benefit from rebuilding. Simply developed with poor choices or deteriorating through poor maintenance. Very nice nebari and older trunks with movement. But they have dead primary branches and foliage that has been allowed to grow out or branches that have deteriorated through poor pruning technique or lack thereof. So it is common for these enthusiasts to seek out further techniques to improve older trees or neglected trees. And often in my experience collected trees can benefit from grafting.I think for the majority of trees posted here, which are often very young, the last two points are a bit moot, but agree with 1 and 2.
I rarely used to come across people needing to graft on branches on European forums, just seems very common here thats all.
Theres an old quote I used to come across when starting in the hobby: 'Let the tree tell you what it wants to be' or 'The tree will tell you what it wants to be'
I guess with putting branches where you want them, youre making the tree into something YOU want it to be. Its another way to look at it I guess. Fortunately ive not come across material that has needed these techniques, but seems pretty easy by the looks of it.
I see your points!Easy to agree with your comments from an idealistic point of view. As you quoted John Naka I believe. Unfortunately I come across a lot of trees that have been cared for in a basic elementary fashion for a long time and need or could benefit from rebuilding. Simply developed with poor choices or deteriorating through poor maintenance. Very nice nebari and older trunks with movement. But they have dead primary branches and foliage that has been allowed to grow out or branches that have deteriorated through poor pruning technique or lack thereof. So it is common for these enthusiasts to seek out further techniques to improve older trees or neglected trees. And often in my experience collected trees can benefit from grafting.
I do think it becomes more common for more experienced Bonsai enthusiasts to acquire older stock to work on rather than the younger stock you refer to in a developmental sense. In many cases the older trees can be improved with grafting.
If ones primary focus is on digging up trunks and reselling, or developing from scratch then I see your point.
Lots of room in the hobby for alternate paths to the same destination. A focus on improvement and refinement can often lead to requiring more techniques rather than less.
I suppose one could just scrap those that require extra technique or effort, but that seems not quite "cricket"
The tree is healthy and in a garden pot, not a shallow bonsai pot {~8" deep, 8" diameter}. the strongest/thickest branch is in the upper right of photo 2. But it's a bit high. It would leave a long section of the trunk without much taper.What do the roots look like?
I wouldn't worry about chopping it until you get the roots nice, that might could use the power of the whole thing growing.
Besides that....
I find it counterproductive to chop to a "new leader"(I despisethat term), until it's worthy of being followed.
Best to keep the top relatively trimmed, or, from shading out dude, till it's already a Proper Next Segment.
Not only will it then contain enough foliage to further safely move forward with repotting and such, but the girth will allow resources to keep flowing around the wound you need to heal, rather than dying.
If it's just a twig, it won't succeed in healing anything until most of the wound is already rotting away.
"Build to cut, don't cut to build."
Hell with grafting, less were speaking of roots.
Sorce
Large trunk chops are done in several stages to get best results. Making a big chop too close to a weak leader can kill that shoot. Cut a bit above to allow the sap to flow to the new leader then when it is growing well make the final angle cut, seal and allow the new leader to grow to heal the chop and thicken to match the section below. You'll probably need to do a series of grow and chops to get good trunk taper right to the new top.So from the front view, the width of the trunk is not reduced by any chop? The trunk would go from the current 2+" to the new leader which is currently 1/8"? Adding 1 of the 2 angled chops would not be advisable, even if it provides some taper?