Where-to-cut advice! (+ID🙏)

aarnii

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Hello guys! First-time posting yay.

After avoiding conifers for 3 years and over 30 trees I finally got a couple. These were too cheap to pass, I was at a bonsai place but it was extremely rural and these were thrown around the property. I have no idea of the exact species and I am not sure how to proceed (I'll wait until spring, but I like having a plan and have no idea on what's possible).

  • Juniper: I wanted to make it a formal upright, tall and rather thin, secuoya looking (just wired to straighten). Not too tall. I would thicken it more first, and here's my question:
    • Should I cut it around 2/3 of the truck to have 'some' taper with a new leader? It doesn't need much, but it's a stick.
    • Should I just let it thicken, cut flat somewhere and carve the tip or hide it? Not sure it would ever heal.
IMG_20210910_184253.jpgIMG_20210910_184248.jpg

  • Pine: Long-term project as I see it. I'd like to get a rather fat and short pine. Doesn't look like it but it's pretty thick at the base, so just build taper and have something cool in a few years. The whole tree is a sacrifice branch.
    • Should I cut at the first set of branches or the second one? I'd like the first, but will that ever heal or should I leave some room for a jin? I don't mind if it takes a few years, I'll need to develop all the other branches too.
    • When I repot, should I leave most of the original soil or just a bit? I see japanese masters remove all soil from pines all the time but 'normal' people struggle a lot with them at the mininum restriction.
IMG_20210910_184153.jpgIMG_20210910_184135.jpgIMG_20210910_184143.jpgIMG_20210910_184153 (1).jpg

An ID of both would be extra nice as I forgot asking at the place with all the nice stuff I could score.

Thank you guys!
 

Shibui

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Juniper: I wanted to make it a formal upright, tall and rather thin, secuoya looking (just wired to straighten). Not too tall. I would thicken it more first, and here's my question:
  • Should I cut it around 2/3 of the truck to have 'some' taper with a new leader? It doesn't need much, but it's a stick.
  • Should I just let it thicken, cut flat somewhere and carve the tip or hide it? Not sure it would ever heal.
I would make the trunk chop taper. Note that is more difficult than is may first seem to get a good straight regrowth for formal upright after a trunk chop which may be one of the reasons good formal upright are not common.
Cut and carve the stump is another option. Not better or worse just another option. Formal upright and dead stump is also not really compatible so the results may not be quite formal upright.
Cuts on these will heal but it will take time and growth above the cut to provide the thickening necessary to heal over any cut. Chopping early and chopping more often produce a better result. It may take longer to get the trunk thickness but when you allow for the years to regrow the top and heal scars after a large trunk chop it may end up similar timeline with either method.

Pine: Long-term project as I see it. I'd like to get a rather fat and short pine. Doesn't look like it but it's pretty thick at the base, so just build taper and have something cool in a few years. The whole tree is a sacrifice branch.
  • Should I cut at the first set of branches or the second one? I'd like the first, but will that ever heal or should I leave some room for a jin? I don't mind if it takes a few years, I'll need to develop all the other branches too.
  • When I repot, should I leave most of the original soil or just a bit? I see japanese masters remove all soil from pines all the time but 'normal' people struggle a lot with them at the mininum restriction.
I would probably cut at the lower branches, especially if the plan is for a shorter tree with lots of taper. Again, large cuts will heal if given time and enough growth. Cut flush and heal or jin are both legitimate so only personal preference and style will dictate which to use.
I routinely bare root (not wash) pines and do not seem to have any problem. Many of the posts against bare root of pines are from those who have never tried or have had a single bad experience or just regurgitating what they have heard. I'll leave it up to you to decide which way to follow because either will work.
 

aarnii

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I would make the trunk chop taper. Note that is more difficult than is may first seem to get a good straight regrowth for formal upright after a trunk chop which may be one of the reasons good formal upright are not common.
Cut and carve the stump is another option. Not better or worse just another option. Formal upright and dead stump is also not really compatible so the results may not be quite formal upright.
Cuts on these will heal but it will take time and growth above the cut to provide the thickening necessary to heal over any cut. Chopping early and chopping more often produce a better result. It may take longer to get the trunk thickness but when you allow for the years to regrow the top and heal scars after a large trunk chop it may end up similar timeline with either method.


I would probably cut at the lower branches, especially if the plan is for a shorter tree with lots of taper. Again, large cuts will heal if given time and enough growth. Cut flush and heal or jin are both legitimate so only personal preference and style will dictate which to use.
I routinely bare root (not wash) pines and do not seem to have any problem. Many of the posts against bare root of pines are from those who have never tried or have had a single bad experience or just regurgitating what they have heard. I'll leave it up to you to decide which way to follow because either will work.

Thanks for the amazing and deep reply! If both can heal, I'd rather go for it even if it takes time, I was scared of it not being possible. And for the first one, will try to chop and get a leader that gives continuity to the straight shape as most of it needs to be straigthened too.

Thanks again!
 

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