White "decay" on Catlin Elm

Ryan Cheng

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Hello people of the Bonsai Nut forums,

I've been the proud owner of a Catlin Elm for about two weeks now. As you can probably tell, since that time a white crust/film has developed on the leaves. Upon watering, they do wash off easily but reappear after a day or so. It might just be the doting bonsai owner in me but is this cause for concern?

Some background of my care for the tree:
- it (and I) currently live in LA
- the tree is placed on the windowsill of a fourth floor apartment (I've read just about every post about the inadequacies of keeping trees indoors but it's the best I can do at this point in time)
- I water it whenever the soil is almost dry a 1/2 inch below the surface soil (about every other day); however, I do not mist regularly or at all
- facing the southeast, it doesn't get direct sunlight but apparently Chinese Elms prefer not to (or that's a least what I was told when I bought it from the owner of the bonsai nursery)
- there is fairly sufficient ventilation as there is a near-constant light breeze

The plant does seem otherwise healthy to my untrained eyes, with light green growing tips and little evidence of other stress such as any other browning tips or excessive foliage. From a preliminary read through numerous threads, it could be anything from chalk residue from hard water to scale - or simply the aftermath of its transition to a sub-indoor environment (which is my current fear).

Thanks in advance everyone!

-
 

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0soyoung

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Looks like it could be nothing more than hard water deposits (mostly calcium carbonate) on the leaves.

If so, you may eventually encounter a chlorosis problem as the hard water can raise the soil pH to the level that the roots have trouble loading iron and other minerals from the soil. Repotting will remedy this for a season or two; a few pinches of Ironite greener will also; using a soil acidifier will also work (maybe use Miracid).
 

Ryan Cheng

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Looks like it could be nothing more than hard water deposits (mostly calcium carbonate) on the leaves.

If so, you may eventually encounter a chlorosis problem as the hard water can raise the soil pH to the level that the roots have trouble loading iron and other minerals from the soil. Repotting will remedy this for a season or two; a few pinches of Ironite greener will also; using a soil acidifier will also work (maybe use Miracid).
Thanks for the reply Osoyoung.

That is certainly a relief. I didn't think this would be a problem from the get-go but I'm glad I found out early on.

I'll definitely look into Ironite or a soil acidifier if it continues to be an issue, but I think I might try to filter the water through some commercial water filter (e.g. Brita) in the mean time.
 

sorce

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Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 

Ryan Cheng

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What's a sub-indoor environment?

Scott
I didn't mean "sub-indoor environment" in the sense of any formal terminology. I just meant that I wouldn't exactly call my housing of it explicitly indoors, as it sits on the windowsill and gets much of what would outdoors such as ambient lighting and proper ventilation.
 

Eric Group

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I didn't mean "sub-indoor environment" in the sense of any formal terminology. I just meant that I wouldn't exactly call my housing of it explicitly indoors, as it sits on the windowsill and gets much of what would outdoors such as ambient lighting and proper ventilation.
Outside the window or inside?

Inside= most of the UV is stripped by the window pain, no air circulation, poor humidity... Not a good climate for most any tree. Even tropicals that do very well indoors require supplemental lighting, air circulators, perhaps misting systems... To thrive! An Elm "can" live indoors but I suspect that is where your problems all originate from.

If you moved it three inches outside the window (or wherever there is room outdoors), it would get full light, air circulation and humidity... AND the rain water would water it for you sometimes, reducing the need to water as much with what is clearly a very heavy hard water you have coming from your tap!

If you hav extremely cold winters, you can always move it to a warmer spot during the height of the winter....
 

rockm

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"I do not mist regularly or at all"

Well,

Which is it? Either you have or you haven't.

If you don't mist it at all --and never have--this could be a fungal infection from wet soil and no air circulation (which are big problems with trees kept indoors).

If you have misted --even once--this could be hard water stain.

BTW, elms are not "indoor" trees. They can just tolerate it for a while. A windowsill is a very bad place for bonsai, too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter. An open window may provide some ventilation, but not enough for a tree. "Ventilation" for a tree is a stiff breeze or a wind, not a puff or two of air on its way inside the house.

As you can tell, not a fan of "indoor" treatment for elms.
 

M. Frary

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As you can tell, not a fan of "indoor" treatment for elms
Me neither. But if you got to have it inside at least put it on the television so you can look at it before it dies. It also cuts the trees suffering in at least half.
 

Ryan Cheng

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I vote for tap-water, welcome to the forum.
Thanks for one of the actually productive posts; I'll definitely look into it.

Outside the window or inside?

Inside= most of the UV is stripped by the window pain, no air circulation, poor humidity... Not a good climate for most any tree. Even tropicals that do very well indoors require supplemental lighting, air circulators, perhaps misting systems... To thrive! An Elm "can" live indoors but I suspect that is where your problems all originate from.

If you moved it three inches outside the window (or wherever there is room outdoors), it would get full light, air circulation and humidity... AND the rain water would water it for you sometimes, reducing the need to water as much with what is clearly a very heavy hard water you have coming from your tap!

If you hav extremely cold winters, you can always move it to a warmer spot during the height of the winter....

I leave it directly on an (consistently) open windowsill, so it hard to say that it as either outside or inside the window. However, I can tell you the environmental conditions (sunlight, ventilation, etc.) it is currently in wouldn't be noticeably any different than three inches out side the window. With that being said, I will consider misting and I have since started to use filtered water to water the tree (to which I am still determining the levels of calcium carbonate but it seems to drastically softer water). If you would be so kind, what would some signs of low humidity should I be looking for in the plant?

"I do not mist regularly or at all"

Well,

Which is it? Either you have or you haven't.

If you don't mist it at all --and never have--this could be a fungal infection from wet soil and no air circulation (which are big problems with trees kept indoors).

If you have misted --even once--this could be hard water stain.

BTW, elms are not "indoor" trees. They can just tolerate it for a while. A windowsill is a very bad place for bonsai, too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter. An open window may provide some ventilation, but not enough for a tree. "Ventilation" for a tree is a stiff breeze or a wind, not a puff or two of air on its way inside the house.

As you can tell, not a fan of "indoor" treatment for elms.

It varies from week to week. Believe it or not, neither am I (a fan of "indoor" treatment for elms) - especially after all the preparation (i.e. reading threads) I've done on bonsai care, which is still probably not enough. The reason I leave it, as I mentioned above, on the (consistently) open windowsill is exactly because of this. What I can say is that the tree is showing no signs of being too hot or too cold; "a stiff breeze or a wind" is what I'd call the ventilation through my window; and I'm trying here.
 
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Tieball

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Me neither. But if you got to have it inside at least put it on the television so you can look at it before it dies. It also cuts the trees suffering in at least half.
With good wiring it might make a good indoor antenna for the TV.

I cured hard water stains on leaves by misting thoroughly with collected rain water from a bucket that sits outdoors.
 

Ryan Cheng

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Would anyone happen to know how I would go about removing the browned leaves (i.e. trim the dead part of the leaf or remove the leaf entirely), or rather if I should at all?
 

Bonsai Nut

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Would anyone happen to know how I would go about removing the browned leaves (i.e. trim the dead part of the leaf or remove the leaf entirely), or rather if I should at all?

There is no physical advantage to trimming the leaves. They will fall off soon enough. However if they bother you (visually) you can cut off the leaves at the stem to get rid of the brown leaf. Don't pull the leaf, or trim the leaf too close to the branch, because in many cases a latent bud will be located close to the base of the leaf, and if you trim too close you can damage/kill the bud.
 

Bonsai Nut

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By the way I am with other opinions on this thread who say those are hard water stains. Water your elm with filtered or soft water, and/or wipe down the leaves with vinegar.
 

Ryan Cheng

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There is no physical advantage to trimming the leaves. They will fall off soon enough. However if they bother you (visually) you can cut off the leaves at the stem to get rid of the brown leaf. Don't pull the leaf, or trim the leaf too close to the branch, because in many cases a latent bud will be located close to the base of the leaf, and if you trim too close you can damage/kill the bud.
Thanks; that's great to know! However, does this mean removing the whole leaf or only the affected area of the leaf - or I suppose more importantly, does it make a difference?
 
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