Whitebark Pine yamadori

[jevanlewis]

Posting a Whitebark Pine (I think) yamadori I collected (legally) in the Central Cascades in May 2021. It's not a great specimen--it's young and has a very challenging truck that I'll have to get creative with--but it's a chance to learn about a type of Pine I don't have yet. Here are some photos with some questions.

May 15, 2021: Day of collection


June 21, 2021: Pushing new growth


August 5, 2021: The tree is in it's new home (Seattle --> Salt Lake City). The tree continues to push new growth and appears health. The tree starts to show one or two sap spots on the trunk.


August 16, 2021: The foliage remains a health green and the new growth is even stronger. However...


...there are several more sap spots on the trunk.


Anyone have experience with sap spots on the trunk or branches? According to my quick research, while WBP trees are susceptible to Mountain Pine Beetles, generally the beetles don't infect seedlings. It's hard to see with the sap in the way, but there don't appear to be borer/beetle holes, but of course, maybe they can be too small to see easily. Regardless, I've treated the trunk and foliage with Sevin spray and the soil with Bayer insecticide systemic.

I also wonder if the rock under the trunk--not cosmetic; it's just there to hold the trunk up--is baking the trunk in the 90-100 degree weather here in Salt Lake. Today, I removed the rock to see if that helps. Any ideas are appreciated!

 

[Vance Wood]

It is hard to tell from your photographs but are the needles in bunches of two's or five's?

 

[jevanlewis]

Needles are bunches of five.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Rock is no worry. Sap spots do not create warm fuzzy feelings here. Strongly suggest feeding good systemic insecticide, fungicide(both)as well as spray with both ASAP. White Bark Pine exceedingly rare on here and would love see tree survive.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have no hands on experience with white bark pine. I have been following posts by others with white barked pine, Pinus albicaulis, is a high elevation pine in nature. It is now has an endangered listing, due to white pine blister rust, bark beetles and the drought in the southern parts of its range.

One of the common names for whitebark pine (not used by bonsai people) is pitch pine, which implies pitch leaking occasionally.

My recollection of the outcomes of the many threads started here on BNut and over on IBC is that long term survival of whitebark pine is not real high. Where they have had success was areas like Seattle or Portland. Long term prospects for white bark pine in Utah largely depends on your elevation. If you are below maybe 5000 feet, you might have trouble with it.

Don't give up. You have a younger tree, young trees are more adaptable. Perhaps you will have good luck.

Since you already treated for bark beetles, you are in good shape. I do not know if there is a treatment for pine blister rust. I'd probably try Mancozeb. but I don't know the official symptoms of the rust.

 

[sdavis]

Pinus albicaulis is on the list of trees not allowed to be collected in Oregon from federal lands.

 

[August44]

Pinus albicaulis is on the list of trees not allowed to be collected in Oregon from federal lands.

That is not correct info from what I know. I have collected several of them, but don't care for them because of their lack of interesting bark and slow growth. I also consider them to be a weak tree. IMO, the Western White Pine (Idaho State tree) is a much better specimen.

This is what the blister rust looks like on a White Bark in my mountains

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The endangered listing was on the Wikipedia website, not an "official" source. In USA only the United Nation's list of Endangered Species is not honored. The list of endangered species that counts under USA law appears in the Lacey Act. Every few years Congress has to amend the Lacey Act to add species that have been added to the United Nation's Red List. During the Trump administration no new species were added to the Lacey Act. For USA to recognize a native species as endangered there are a number of criteria beyond just showing up on the UN Red List. I don't believe the research has been done as Trump admin has not been authorizing the expenditures involved in such research. The Biden administration is not exactly racing to get back into the listing of endangered species. With the ongoing and immediate future effects of climate change there are probably too many species whose populations are collapsing for the US Federal system to get caught up with even if there was a turn around in spending on updating the Lacey Act. There are hundreds of species whose populations are crashing, which at least in theory could be added. We are in the early phase of a mass extinction event, thousands of species will be gone by 2100, a couple hundred by 2030. Whether Pinus albicaulis gets added to the list really doesn't matter. It is 1,2,3 punch of climate change, white pine blister rust and bark beetles, that is killing this one off, and there isn't much we can do.

The collecting of a few by the relatively small number of bonsai artists that want to work with this species is not going to make a bit of difference in the long run. Don't feel guilty and it is perfectly legal, as you said, you had permission.

Note: (plants only) even with a species listed on the Lacey Act, if you have permission of the private land owner, you can collect a listed plant. You are not allow to sell it across state lines, but you can collect it from private land and you can "take the plant home" even if it is across state lines. You just can't sell it. Its a loop hole put in there for botanical gardens and universities, but anyone can use it.

 

[jevanlewis]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

Doing a bit more research, I think my tree is actually a Western White Pine:
1. The needles on my tree more resemble needles of WWPs from images on the web.
2. The tree I collected was in the typical range for WWP (3,000-5,000 ft) versus WBP, which is normally at the tree line.

 

[Bonds Guy]

We are in the early phase of a mass extinction event, thousands of species will be gone by 2100, a couple hundred by 2030.

Even though I was well aware of this, it makes me sad to actually hear it ...well read it.

 

[just.wing.it]

But I thought Berkeley Springs WV was supposed to be Atlantic Beachfront property by 2000.....weird.

 

[Cruiser]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

Doing a bit more research, I think my tree is actually a Western White Pine:
1. The needles on my tree more resemble needles of WWPs from images on the web.
2. The tree I collected was in the typical range for WWP (3,000-5,000 ft) versus WBP, which is normally at the tree line.

Rub the needles towards the sheath. Do they feel rough or smooth? White bark pine needles will feel smooth. Western white needles are finely serrated and feel “rough”.

 

[jevanlewis]

Rub the needles towards the sheath. Do they feel rough or smooth? White bark pine needles will feel smooth. Western white needles are finely serrated and feel “rough”.

They feel rough, and so that confirms WWP. Thanks for the identification tip.

 

[sdavis]

If the plant is not on the list you can't collect it but WWP is listed and OK....

 

[August44]

If the plant is not on the list you can't collect it but WWP is listed and OK....

View attachment 392345

I do not understand that list/chart on the left (dots, green boxes with black little dots, the various other colors etc) and would like to know where it came from. Thank you

 

[sdavis]

From the Deschutes National Forest website

 

[Potawatomi13]

That is not correct info from what I know. I have collected several of them, but don't care for them because of their lack of interesting bark and slow growth. I also consider them to be a weak tree. IMO, the Western White Pine (Idaho State tree) is a much better specimen.

This is what the blister rust looks like on a White Bark in my mountains

Why consider these weak trees?

 

[andrewiles]

From the Deschutes National Forest website

I'm no expert but I went on a number of collecting efforts on forest service land this past spring in Washington. My #1 takeaway is that every forest, and even every ranger district, has different rules on what to collect, when, where, how much, etc.

For example, in the Methow Valley district of eastern Washington they only placed restrictions on locations. In Chelan, next door, I was told not to collect some species like Western Larch. Likewise over the crest in the entire Baker-Snoqualmie national forest I was told no Mountain Hemlocks. Next door in Olympic national forest, Mountain Hemlocks are OK.

So I don't think broad statements are useful here.

To the OP, I did collect some Whitebark pine from the treeline, I believe, and I can post some photos if you like. I see some sap spots on mine as well but they otherwise seem OK.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I'm no expert but I went on a number of collecting efforts on forest service land this past spring in Washington. My #1 takeaway is that every forest, and even every ranger district, has different rules on what to collect, when, where, how much, etc.

For example, in the Methow Valley district of eastern Washington they only placed restrictions on locations. In Chelan, next door, I was told not to collect some species like Western Larch. Likewise over the crest in the entire Baker-Snoqualmie national forest I was told no Mountain Hemlocks. Next door in Olympic national forest, Mountain Hemlocks are OK.

So I don't think broad statements are useful here.

To the OP, I did collect some Whitebark pine from the treeline, I believe, and I can post some photos if you like. I see some sap spots on mine as well but they otherwise seem OK.

Please post.

 

[August44]

I'm no expert but I went on a number of collecting efforts on forest service land this past spring in Washington. My #1 takeaway is that every forest, and even every ranger district, has different rules on what to collect, when, where, how much, etc.

For example, in the Methow Valley district of eastern Washington they only placed restrictions on locations. In Chelan, next door, I was told not to collect some species like Western Larch. Likewise over the crest in the entire Baker-Snoqualmie national forest I was told no Mountain Hemlocks. Next door in Olympic national forest, Mountain Hemlocks are OK.

So I don't think broad statements are useful here.

To the OP, I did collect some Whitebark pine from the treeline, I believe, and I can post some photos if you like. I see some sap spots on mine as well but they otherwise seem OK.

And you are correct about every ranger district being different I find. I do not have the restrictions here that they do over in the Bend area. If I was to collect a healthy Whitebark pine in my area and bring in home, to me I just saved it's life verses being up there on the mountain with that rust fungus floating around. It is especially bad when the mountains are in the clouds and the humidity is way up I was told.