Why are bonsai so expensive?

[ConorDash]

Luckily, I've told my neighbours that if they want any big plants digging up to give me a shout beforehand - it might just save them a ton of work. I've now got a Japanese wisteria to go with my Chinese one I'm just letting it grow til it blooms again.

Yeah.. my neighbours were aware of my love but didn’t take it too seriously. They’ve still got a huge stump, I’ve said if it buds. I’m airlayering it.. cant let such a huge thick stump of an old wisteria go to waste. It hurts me, inside.
It’s roots go deep, I think it’ll bud but we shall see.

There certainly is so much material around for the taking.. imagine the amazing pieces that go to waste every day from people renovating gardens.

 

[Paulpash]

Yeah.. my neighbours were aware of my love but didn’t take it too seriously. They’ve still got a huge stump, I’ve said if it buds. I’m airlayering it.. cant let such a huge thick stump of an old wisteria go to waste. It hurts me, inside.
It’s roots go deep, I think it’ll bud but we shall see.

There certainly is so much material around for the taking.. imagine the amazing pieces that go to waste every day from people renovating gardens.

Wisteria don't need much root to survive - I bet you could dig it out and get it to live no problem. When neighbours realise it'll save them a lot of backache they tend to be more forthcoming.

 

[BrianBay9]

It's a classic "time vs money" choice. Spend money to save time and jump ahead on development. Spend time if you don't have the money, or choose not to spend it that way.

 

[rockm]

And growing your own isn't about that? I have a Cotoneaster that I dug out as a 2 leaf seedling when I first moved in to my property as a 21 year old complete bonsai noobie. I'll be fifty one in October. It's not a great tree but I keep it around exactly BECAUSE I recognize that exact effort and the lessons it taught me.

It's like @Brian Van Fleet 's ginkgo he grew from seed. It is special to him because it symbolizes perseverance and effort - investment of time nurturing something from scratch. My ground grown ginkgo still has development time ahead of it and it has easily been in the ground 20 years. I find it rich that someone who just works on refinement and more instant gratification can lecture another experienced grower on patience, effort and perseverance - we're just 2 sides of the same coin.

" I find it rich that someone who just works on refinement and more instant gratification can lecture another experienced grower on patience, effort and perseverance"

This is kind of what I've been talking about. I get the sentiment, BUT the tone here shows that "you're not really doing bonsai, you're only refining trees for instant gratification"

Adair is far far FAR away from "just doing refinement" on his trees. This is a mostly a veiled insult about someone who has pretty damn fine bonsai skills.

FWI, He didn't attack anything you've done, so why belittle what he's doing?

He stated a fact, old bonsai accumulate their past owners' work--simple as that. Self grown trees will be your own only until you die and they get sold off or given away.

That's the way it is. The trees you are growing from scratch ARE NOT FINISHED by you, even if you say they are.

If they're lucky, they survive you and are passed on. In most cases, they will get significant reworking by their new owners who mostly won't have the same vision as you. Think those trees you're growing now will look the same in 50 years after they've had two or three or more owners--nope you probably wouldn't recognize them if you lived that long.

So, the "instant gratification" thing is mostly the realm of "grow it your yourself" people. They're looking for a "finished" bonsai in their lifetime...just sayin...

 

[thumblessprimate1]

" I find it rich that someone who just works on refinement and more instant gratification can lecture another experienced grower on patience, effort and perseverance"

This is kind of what I've been talking about. I get the sentiment, BUT the tone here shows that "you're not really doing bonsai, you're only refining trees for instant gratification"

Adair is far far FAR away from "just doing refinement" on his trees. This is a mostly a veiled insult about someone who has pretty damn fine bonsai skills.

FWI, He didn't attack anything you've done, so why belittle what he's doing?

He stated a fact, old bonsai accumulate their past owners' work--simple as that. Self grown trees will be your own only until you die and they get sold off or given away.

That's the way it is. The trees you are growing from scratch ARE NOT FINISHED by you, even if you say they are.

If they're lucky, they survive you and are passed on. In most cases, they will get significant reworking by their new owners who mostly won't have the same vision as you. Think those trees you're growing now will look the same in 50 years after they've had two or three or more owners--nope you probably wouldn't recognize them if you lived that long.

So, the "instant gratification" thing is mostly the realm of "grow it your yourself" people. They're looking for a "finished" bonsai in their lifetime...just sayin...

Developing nebari and closing chops is neat, but it ain't all I want to do. I'll buy more "finished" bonsai in the coming years A little bit of this and that in stages.

 

[Paulpash]

" I find it rich that someone who just works on refinement and more instant gratification can lecture another experienced grower on patience, effort and perseverance"

This is kind of what I've been talking about. I get the sentiment, BUT the tone here shows that "you're not really doing bonsai, you're only refining trees for instant gratification"

Adair is far far FAR away from "just doing refinement" on his trees. This is a mostly a veiled insult about someone who has pretty damn fine bonsai skills.

FWI, He didn't attack anything you've done, so why belittle what he's doing?

He stated a fact, old bonsai accumulate their past owners' work--simple as that. Self grown trees will be your own only until you die and they get sold off or given away.

That's the way it is. The trees you are growing from scratch ARE NOT FINISHED by you, even if you say they are.

If they're lucky, they survive you and are passed on. In most cases, they will get significant reworking by their new owners who mostly won't have the same vision as you. Think those trees you're growing now will look the same in 50 years after they've had two or three or more owners--nope you probably wouldn't recognize them if you lived that long.

So, the "instant gratification" thing is mostly the realm of "grow it your yourself" people. They're looking for a "finished" bonsai in their lifetime...just sayin...

Firstly, I've punched the like button on Adair's threads more times than I can remember and his skills are at a very high level. I also love that he teaches as I too am a teacher.

I didn't know about the cancer thing so I felt pretty crap about that or the fact that his wife killed his oldest trees.

This was about the appreciation of time & effort that Adair felt I hadn't got by watching the video. I had that's all.. and just as he had placed his own journey in context I felt as if I had that right too. Watching a slow growing mf like ginkgo trunk up teaches you patience!

 

[Adair M]

There are no “finished” trees. There are “showable” trees. But showable trees will continue to grow and change and need to be cut back, restyled, improved.

Has anyone noticed that Owen Reich is working on Goshin at the National Bonsai Garden in Washington, DC.? It had gotten badly overgrown due to poor management, and Owen is bringing it back to its former glory.

One of the exercises that Boon does at the intensives is have the students study old bonsai, and discuss how to improve them. After the discussion, he then shows how the trees were restyled. And then, he Springs the surprise: the “before” images were Kokofu-ten Prize winning trees! That’s right, they win the biggest show in Japan, and some of them get a total make over when they get sold to a new owner, or put into the care of a different artist!

 

[Adair M]

And growing your own isn't about that? I have a Cotoneaster that I dug out as a 2 leaf seedling when I first moved in to my property as a 21 year old complete bonsai noobie. I'll be fifty one in October. It's not a great tree but I keep it around exactly BECAUSE I recognize that exact effort and the lessons it taught me.

It's like @Brian Van Fleet 's ginkgo he grew from seed. It is special to him because it symbolizes perseverance and effort - investment of time nurturing something from scratch. My ground grown ginkgo still has development time ahead of it and it has easily been in the ground 20 years. I find it rich that someone who just works on refinement and more instant gratification can lecture another experienced grower on patience, effort and perseverance - we're just 2 sides of the same coin.

@Paulpash, just because I post more of my refined trees here, doesn’t mean I don’t work on rougher material.

There are plenty of people on this forum who post raw and/or rough stock. There are few, however, who post highly refined trees. I post the highly refined trees because those are the ones I work the most. Because you HAVE to work them often in order to keep them refined.

Raw/rough stock, however, is different. It mostly needs time. Time to grow. Time to recover. Time to repair. It’s best to work it, and leave it alone. Years sometimes.

Here are some of my “rough stock” projects:









There’s more, but I think I’ve made my point.

 

[Maloghurst]

I know this @Adair M. Came from John up here near Seattle. I went in to his shop one day and boons name is on so many trees! Everyone I had interest had his name on it!
I was really thinking hard about the chojubai until his name showed up on it. I’m looking forward to see how this progresses.

 

[Adair M]

Different chojubai. I got it from Lone Pine at the REBS Show two years ago.

Yeah, the JBP is going to be good. I cut off several long branches. I guess removed about 1/2 the foliage. Kept some on to use as scions for grafting next spring.

 

[Maloghurst]

Different chojubai. I got it from Lone Pine at the REBS Show two years ago.

Yeah, the JBP is going to be good. I cut off several long branches. I guess removed about 1/2 the foliage. Kept some on to use as scions for grafting next spring.

Yes different chojubai. I’ve never grafted, that’s why I was struggling to see the potential in some of those pines.

 

[Adair M]

Yes different chojubai. I’ve never grafted, that’s why I was struggling to see the potential in some of those pines.

Learn to graft. It’s really not that hard.

The dirty secret behind all the amazing Japanese trees is that they’re almost all grafted.

 

[Maloghurst]

It's a classic "time vs money" choice. Spend money to save time and jump ahead on development. Spend time if you don't have the money, or choose not to spend it that way.

“The problem with being poor is it takes up all of your time”
-Willem de Kooning

 

[grouper52]

Good video!

Is there an emoji here for "Yawn"?