Why are my Japanese Maples not producing any seeds

[BalconyBonsai]

Hi, I would like to grow japanese maple from seed and have been hoping for my bonsai trees, 2 standard acer palmatum and 1 deshojo, to produce flowers and fruit/seeds but nothing has been produced so far. I have not been able to find any information regarding the circumstances when seeds are produced. Do I need to do something special in order for my bonsai trees to do this? Looking at maples in nature they seem to all be full of these during late spring/early summer so it seems like just a natural thing that happens.

As a part 2 to this question, growing a seed from a deshojo, does that result in a deshojo or will it have random properties?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I can confirm seeds to be unreliable for type e.g. deshojo, the seeds will be mixed due to pollination and genetic diversity producing huge variation in seedlings some probably won't even be red. This is why often most commercially available maples (outside this hobby) are grafted.

if you wanted true to type then cuttings or airlayers produces genetic clones of the original plant on its own roots, which can give you control of the roots early on. some maples root better than others too hopefully deshojo isn't one of the harder ones but a wise one will be along soon,

If its the seed growing experience perhaps variation is part of the fun?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Just seen your other thread apologies for sending you back on yourself!

Change of plan plant loads of seeds and select the ones you like the look of

 

[BalconyBonsai]

Just seen your other thread apologies for sending you back on yourself!

Change of plan plant loads of seeds and select the ones you like the look of

No worries, the problem though is the original question in this post, that my trees are not producing any flowers and fruit/seeds, only leaves. And I would prefer to not have to buy but use seeds from my own trees.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I deleted my guess at that to condense my reply to what I was sure of,

In lack of other options for now I was leaning towards the tree possibly not being mature enough to flower yet, if these are in pots that may take a while. If its a mature tree it could be a pollination issue such as only male or female flowers or pest issue such as squirrels eating the seeds

Due to the seeds being varied anyway perhaps you could find some seeds from another tree locally still for free? Both my first cuttings pots were invaded by wild field maple seeds as there is a huge one a block away from me that catches the wind, apparently maple samaras have the greatest flight

 

[BalconyBonsai]

I'm not sure what counts as mature but they are between, I think, 9 and 17 years old. But maybe it's not directly related to the age? I'm pretty sure it's not something that has been blown away since I think I would have seen it at some point...

 

[Shibui]

Age can be a factor. Some species like wisteria are not mature until 7-10 years old. Others are mature and flower at 2 years old. Keeping as a bonsai can delay maturity. One wisteria here did not flower until 21 years old!
Many species flower on new shoots. In bonsai we continually trim new shoots to manage the shape and size so we remove flower buds of many species even before we can see them.
The bonsai that do flower may not have good enough conditions to ripen seed successfully. Most of the pine cones I get on trees in training are empty though occasionally I can get some seed from them.

Best to look to garden trees for viable seed. Look in parks and gardens and street trees for good specimens then collect seed when it is ripe - usually late summer or autumn.
If you cannot find suitable species in your area you will need to buy or swap some seed.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I'm going to bet that JM need to be at least 15 years old and have good conditions, like not headed back every year. Even then, pollination will vary widely from year to year. Pollination can be interfered with by strong rain just when the pollen is ready to blow around (Maples are wind pollinated). A heavy crop is often followed by a very poor crop because all the trees' resources are spent ripening seed rather than maturing flower buds for the following season.

 

[BrightsideB]

I usually just go and pull the small seedlings straight out of the ground in spring. Cancels out a lot of steps. This is a mutant that I like in the photo that I found that way. I also got several different looking lace leaf types as well.

 

[Shibui]

I'm going to bet that JM need to be at least 15 years old and have good conditions, like not headed back every year. Even then, pollination will vary widely from year to year. Pollination can be interfered with by strong rain just when the pollen is ready to blow around (Maples are wind pollinated). A heavy crop is often followed by a very poor crop because all the trees' resources are spent ripening seed rather than maturing flower buds for the following season.

Japanese maples mature and start to produce seed in as little as 5 years. They are also insect pollinated. My bees are all over the trees when they are in flower but, of course, cold, wet conditions at flowering will also mean a shortage of pollinators and maybe less seed as a result. I have not noticed biennial bearing in any of our JM or other maples here. Seed crops are consistent each year but I have noticed that some cultivars produce less seed than others.

 

[0soyoung]

Maybe it is worth noting that maples produce samara even if the flowers are not pollenated. The seed will be hollow, lacking an embryo.

Japanese maples mature and start to produce seed in as little as 5 years.

This is with regard to seedlings? If one takes a cutting from (lets say) a 10 year old flowering competent tree and grafts the scion onto a 3 year old root stock, is that grafted Japanese maple (still a 10 year old) flowering competent tree or is it now just a 3 year old tree that cannot flower?

 

[Forsoothe!]

"...If one takes a cutting from (lets say) a 10 year old flowering competent tree and grafts the scion onto a 3 year old root stock, is that grafted Japanese maple (still a 10 year old) flowering competent tree or is it now just a 3 year old tree that cannot flower?"

I don't buy this early seed-bearing story. It may be possible in some cases, in some places, but overall as typical, I don't buy it. I planted two green species foundlings in my yard that were both about 5 years old and they didn't bear seeds for 15 years. That's in a gardener's yard with good care.

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

Maybe it is worth noting that maples produce samara even if the flowers are not pollenated. The seed will be hollow, lacking an embryo.


This is with regard to seedlings? If one takes a cutting from (lets say) a 10 year old flowering competent tree and grafts the scion onto a 3 year old root stock, is that grafted Japanese maple (still a 10 year old) flowering competent tree or is it now just a 3 year old tree that cannot flower?

Generally it is in regard to seedlings.
The maturity of the scion wood is preserved after the graft, this is one of the reasons (aside from keeping the variety true to type) almost all fruit and nut trees are grafted, it allows fruit to come on sooner. I remember reading somewhere that a seedling pecan has a 40 year juvenile period.

 

[Shibui]

This is with regard to seedlings? If one takes a cutting from (lets say) a 10 year old flowering competent tree and grafts the scion onto a 3 year old root stock, is that grafted Japanese maple (still a 10 year old) flowering competent tree or is it now just a 3 year old tree that cannot flower?

Apologies @0soyoung I was referring to seedlings with that statement. I agree that cuttings and grafts can bring forward flowering times.
We graft mature crab apple spurs onto apple seedlings and those then flower the following spring at just a few months after grafting. This early flowering phenomenon is not absolute. Many smaller grafted plants and cuttings revert to vegetative growth when planted out in order for the tree to grow fast hence the observations above that even grafted plants can sometimes take years to commence flowering.
Maturity of grafted plants will also be influenced by the scion wood used for the graft which is usually faster growing vegetative wood.

 

[RKatzin]

I have a Makawa yatsubusa that flowers and makes seeds on a regular basis. It's loaded with seeds right now.
However, it's the only Japanese maple in my collection that does. Many are trees I've grown from seedlings and I have a handful of cultivars. I bought a Katsura this spring and it had a dozen seeds on it when it arrived so I'm confident it will be one that flowers and produces seeds.
I have a Coral bark maple at least thirty years old and never once saw a flower on it.
No rhyme or reason to it. Just soma do and soma don't. Until they're darn good and ready! I've tried to research any way to stimulate and trigger flowering, but I come up with zippo on that.