Why do pines take so long before they look good?

sikadelic

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The funny thing is, they both have a 3" trunk, just the pine has been reduced from 24" to 17" tall over the 6 years, and the maple has grown from about 24" to 30" tall. It has swelled up a little, but at this rate, I'm more concerned with improving the nebari.
Ah, I see. The scaled height makes it seem that it is larger. Well done! They both look great!
 

sikadelic

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John Naka's 'Bonsai Techniques II' has an excellent section on bonsai interpretations of trees in the wild.
John Naka's book has excellent sections on everything. I think his books are the best I have come across. I wanted to buy them but they are EXPENSIVE. I checked them out from my local library and contemplated not returning them...lol.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=john+naka
 

PiñonJ

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John Naka's book has excellent sections on everything. I think his books are the best I have come across. I wanted to buy them but they are EXPENSIVE. I checked them out from my local library and contemplated not returning them...lol.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=john+naka

Don't buy them on Amazon. Both Dallas Bonsai Garden and American Bonsai Society have unsigned copies for under $100.
 

Anthony

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Simple,

just have the books photo-copied, there is also a colour copy as well.
This is what is done with library copies of hard to get or out of print books.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Anthony

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Judy,

the idea as I know it is one copy per person, and not for sale.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Anthony

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Judy,

I could also suggest, just taking notes, but I am not sure how popular that would be with the Internet folk. Not very fast paced.
Good Day
Anthony
 

jk_lewis

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The copyright law makes it unlawful to copy an entire document -- even just for individual use. You could possibly get away with copying a chapter.

He also could renew the books from the library when necessary; I doubt there's a big call for them. Not returning them is stealing.
 

MiteyF

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Judy,

I could also suggest, just taking notes, but I am not sure how popular that would be with the Internet folk. Not very fast paced.
Good Day
Anthony

I prefer taking notes, and often do so in a Word document on the computer when reading long, info-rich internet articles as opposed to copy/pasting. The act of re-wording and writing (or typing as the case may be) helps to ingrain the information in your head.
 

Vance Wood

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I prefer taking notes, and often do so in a Word document on the computer when reading long, info-rich internet articles as opposed to copy/pasting. The act of re-wording and writing (or typing as the case may be) helps to ingrain the information in your head.

Sometimes writing something down by hand helps settle it in the mind.
 

Vance Wood

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I just thought of another reason why it takes so long for a pine bonsai to look like something is the fact that, at least in America, we pick material that is less than ten years old. We then, find ourselves trying to style this little, immature tree, into some old looking image that the tree is not capable of becoming in a decade or two! Having made this effort we are still bound by the parameters of growth and the times where in we can work on the tree to effectively make an image of an old Pine.

We tend to be afraid of choosing older material and cutting it down into a bonsai, or we do not have access to Yamadori trees or pre-bonsai, or the finances to afford them. Much of this can be summed up in the concept that most of us do not possess a vision of where to go and the techniques of how to get there, and the knowledge of how to put both together in some coherent program of progress; in other words----- experience.

By the time we get all of this figured out we have been doing bonsai, and mostly failing at Pines, for twenty years.
 
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Anthony

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Actually Vance,

what we discovered was you had to grow through say 10 to 20 of the same plant and practice makes perfect.

Fortunately, the Bonsai Today 12 article showed how fast and what could be done in 5 to 33 years.
So having figured out for us that we should grow in porous pots, or colanders, we now have some 30 or so efforts to grow on. With hopefully more coming up from continuous J.B.P cuttings.
Should have something showable in 10 to 15 years.

By the way we normally take notes, and start from the beginning with as thorough a learning as can be done. Schooling for us was 5 years of 8 subjects [ maths, physics, chem, lit.....] more or less daily for 45 minutes, sometime with double periods.Before exams in the 4th year
and 5th year, and then another 2 years [ for Junior College ] on 3 subjects [ Advanced level ] with a general paper. Leading on to University.
So research comes as breathing.
It is however, something not often seen on the Internet.

By the way, nothing of importance is stored on this laptop, the first laptop died in 2009 [ started in 1998 ] and took all the e-mails with it.
Lesson learnt.
Good Day
Anthony
 
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From these replies and from the pics I have seen posted on the board, I think I'll stick to everything but PINES!!

Thanks for the info!!;)
 
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I am a fisherman, we have a name for this "Purist" Kind of like a man that will fish nothing but flies. LOL..
 

Adair M

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Old pines have plated bark. There is no good way to accelerate the development of bark. Sure, some have tried making wounds, hitting the trunk with a hammer, wiring and letting the wire cut in, etc., but nothing looks like naturally aged bark.

Remember, too, that the pines we see in pictures from Japan have been in training for decades.

Japanese Black Pines are the "king" of bonsai. Everyone who does bonsai really ought to have at least one. They are easy to reduce needle length on, back bud easily, and respond very well to the proper techniques.

That said there is a LOT of misinformation floating around about how to train JBP.

John Naka's books are NOT a good source of JBP technique! Styling, yes. Technique, no. You see the technique of decandling JBP spring candles was unknown to John. He published his books before decandling became well known.

There are some who treat Naka's books as if the are the ultimate source of information. This view is shortsighted.

On this site, Brian Van Fleet shares an excellent tutorial on the modern JBP technique. It is a single at www.nebaribonsai.com.

And, please don't think I'm a Naka hater! Au contraries! I took classes from John, own three of his books. My copy of Bonsai Techniques I was personally dedicated to me by John. John was always lo
Oking for new techniques, and it is unfortunate that Decandling was discovered and kept secret for a couple years right at the time John was writing jis hooks.
 
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