Why is Siberian elm used for bonsai in Europe but not in US ?

davetree

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Why do I see pics of very nice Siberian elm by European bonsai artists ? Why does the tree have such a bad rep in the US but in Europe, from what I have read, it is considered just another elm, and not really troublesome ? Are there two varieties of the same species ? I have an opportunity to collect a really great Siberian elm raft, but I want some info before I do any digging next spring. Thanks for your input.
 

crust

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Most people I know that grew them for many years now reject them as unstable branch droppers. Refined branches just die expectantly. Perhaps it is genetics-- and european pumila is somehow different. Recently I have noticed some species previously rejected for bonsai have seemingly been reconsidered and others are successfully growing them. The key difference seems to be cultural. The theme seems to be to grow them strong at all times, keep them damp and un-stressed, re-pot viciously annually, let grow strongly and unrestrained then cut back--let regrow. Don't allow them to go into a dwarfed slow status. style simply with redundant branches
This is what I have gathered from reading about unstable things pumila, honey suckles, lilac, etc.
 

fore

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That's what I've heard too Crust about S. Elms. I didn't know lilac was also susceptible to branch drop. I have a dwarf lilac from an air layer this year, now I know I need to be more wary of this one.
 

edprocoat

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I think its the problem most here in the states have with speaking in the russian dialects. Its hard for us to say you're looking good, and heres your water grow my beautiful tree in the russian language so the tree understands that we want it to grow and not drop branches. Just a communication problem.

ed
 

Paradox

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I think its the problem most here in the states have with speaking in the russian dialects. Its hard for us to say you're looking good, and heres your water grow my beautiful tree in the russian language so the tree understands that we want it to grow and not drop branches. Just a communication problem.

ed

This made me laugh.
Thanks
 

crust

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That's what I've heard too Crust about S. Elms. I didn't know lilac was also susceptible to branch drop. I have a dwarf lilac from an air layer this year, now I know I need to be more wary of this one.

Old style lilacs dealt with in the US seem to have been unstable as have been various shrubby things. Dwarf lilacs seem to be easier to grow but as you have noted the best examples are from Europe. I have started to grow some dwarf lilacs too--small divisions that I will be trying to keep small but what for now grow in the garden.
 

fore

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Old style lilacs dealt with in the US seem to have been unstable as have been various shrubby things. Dwarf lilacs seem to be easier to grow but as you have noted the best examples are from Europe. I have started to grow some dwarf lilacs too--small divisions that I will be trying to keep small but what for now grow in the garden.

I'll be interested to see your progress Crust when the time comes. Seems to have good potential with it's small leaves and flowers...which are also very pretty in the springtime.
 

rockm

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"Why do I see pics of very nice Siberian elm by European bonsai artists ?"

I think it is because the species hasn't been used for as long in Europe for bonsai as it has in the U.S. The species takes time to inflict the emotional wounds that make people hesitant to use it :D

I never saw pictures of Europeans using the species until recently, like in the last five years or so.

In the U.S., where the species was planted over vast tracts after the dust bowl, it is much more available, familar and collected for bonsai. I have articles written on the species dating back 20 years or more in U.S. bonsai publications.

The species drops limbs without warning. That unfortunate trait isn't really noticed UNTIL a branch you've developed over a decade just withers and dies for no explanation. This trait has also made many of the most knowledgeable U.S. arborists call it THE worst tree to grow. It regularly drops huge limbs, sometimes on people and property, in the areas it has been planted in the U.S.

The species has all the positive elm attributes --nice bark ,finer twigging and an extremely hardy consitition (hardy to Zone 4) but with that single significant bad habit, it's an unstable species to work with. Doesn't make it unsuitable bonsai material, just a potential pain in the ass or a heartbreaker.
 
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