Why we don't have to wire trees into pots

[Anthony]

Well, last night we had high winds and quick running showers.
K called me over, umbrella in hand and had me observe how the newly potted trees
were handling the wind / rain on the balcony.

[1] We only repot, by cutting away a % on the sides and bottom.
The soil mass remains heavy.

[2] Compost as it ages, produces at least three types of glues, one is listed as a natural acrylic.
So the soil is somewhat " bonded" together.

[3] And we always place a recently potted tree in bright light / early morning sun for a week.
So it is also properly settled in, with new feeder roots [ supposed to form in 24 hrs. ]

The soil itself also has some weight.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[twisted trees]

A firm grasp of the obvious this one has.

 

[Anthony]

@twisted trees ,

to at least say thanks for taking the time to read it.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[markyscott]

I would usually hold comment, but I can’t help myself. This is extremely poor advice. I always wire my trees into the pot - every tree, every time. And I often attach my pots to the bench - especially for smaller trees when there are high winds in the forecast. I put far too much work into my trees to leave their security vs wind, squirrels, rats, cats and whatever other challenges nature throws their way to chance.

S

 

[GrimLore]

Well, last night we had high winds and quick running showers.
K called me over, umbrella in hand and had me observe how the newly potted trees
were handling the wind / rain on the balcony.

[1] We only repot, by cutting away a % on the sides and bottom.
The soil mass remains heavy.

[2] Compost as it ages, produces at least three types of glues, one is listed as a natural acrylic.
So the soil is somewhat " bonded" together.

[3] And we always place a recently potted tree in bright light / early morning sun for a week.
So it is also properly settled in, with new feeder roots [ supposed to form in 24 hrs. ]

The soil itself also has some weight.
Good Day
Anthony

The same method(s) work here for us when growing out plants or training them in nursery or training pots. We use organic substrate and a crushed high fired slate for a drainage layer and additional weight.

There are exceptions such as rock, tray, or slab plantings and a couple that are not in organic for final development.

Grimmy

 

[GrimLore]

I would usually hold comment, but I can’t help myself. This is extremely poor advice. I always wire my trees into the pot - every tree, every time. And I often attach my pots to the bench - especially for smaller trees when there are high winds in the forecast. I put far too much work into my trees to leave their security vs wind, squirrels, rats, cats and whatever other challenges nature throws their way to chance.S

I am certain your method is valuable to you and MANY others. The reason being mainly extreme weather conditions. I am fortunate here in that respect. Wind and heavy downpours don't exist while vermin are minimal and easily controlled.

I do wire in some as I noted in post #5 but that is simply common sense in those situations

location, location, location...

Grimmy

 

[rockm]

Animals, namely squirrels, chipmunks and birds, are a big problem if you don't wire your trees into pots after repotting in the spring. Even larger trees can wind up tipped to one side, and the smaller the tree, the bigger the damage from the combination of no wire and rodents/birds. I've seen squirrels upend three foot bonsai as they excavated in the pot. The tree moved allowing them to leverage it. Wired into position, trees won't move and digging in the soil is more difficult.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

It might be correct with pre bonsai material, but I would suggest to fix trees to anyone who might ask it to me. I see trees tilt or wobble when not done right. Lost a few early starters that way. It is another thing when talking about pre material in high organic mix.

 

[Anthony]

If a tree is wobbly, a large flat stone/s can be used on the surface.

Please note -------- title ------- Why we........................

Not given as advice Scott, just saying why we don't.

Additionally, wind has never been a problem, squirrels nor cats.
Cats presently steal very small styro cups, and a cage for removal has
been built ----------- neighbour with cats has been notified.

Just sharing experiences.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[markyscott]

If a tree is wobbly, a large flat stone/s can be used on the surface.

Please note -------- title ------- Why we........................

Not given as advice Scott, just saying why we don't.

Additionally, wind has never been a problem, squirrels nor cats.
Cats presently steal very small styro cups, and a cage for removal has
been built ----------- neighbour with cats has been notified.

Just sharing experiences.
Good Day
Anthony

I’ve said what I needed to say. In my opinion it is highly irresponsible for someone with experience to tell people trying to learn bonsai that their trees don’t need to be wired into small bonsai pots. They absolutely do - every single time. Not doing so is just careless.

S

 

[bonsaidave]

I can see how some small trees could be ok without wire, under certain conditions. Heavy stones on the soil could help.

In Texas we get some serious rain/wind storms. If I am losing shingles off the roof an unwired tree is not staying in the pot. Hell some of my wired trees get blown off the bench sometimes pot and all!

I have had mixed results with non wired pre-bonsai, some we're fine others not so much. I have a real windswept maple, my first successful air-layer, due to not wiring into the pot. It's getting wire this year.

Wiring in the pot is a good safeguard against trees jumping out of their pots, especially in Texas weather.

Cheers you nuts ?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I’ve said what I needed to say. In my opinion it is highly irresponsible for someone with experience to tell people trying to learn bonsai that their trees don’t need to be wired into small bonsai pots. They absolutely do - every single time. Not doing so is just careless.

I'm with @markyscott on this one. What is the possible downside? A minute of your time? Isn't one dead tree worth a lot more than that? Shallow bonsai pots do not allow deep root structure to secure a tree in place. If your tree is locked in place in a pot, it is probably a sign that the tree is root-bound and needs to be repotted. Always wire your trees in pots.

 

[Anthony]

Scott,

I should also have said, that it is supposed to healthier for a tree to rock in
the wind, as it does in nature.
Supposed to strengthen the roots and ultimately the tree.

But point taken

*****I also add---------- I stand corrected.****

Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

Eh, just in case you guys have forgotten ---------

soil here is silica gravel, and the compost acts as a glue.
You might have seen the shallow pot, used to grow Sorce's Ficus.
Tall fellow, and 90 % silica gravel, by volume.

No pumice or perlite in use.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I should also have said, that it is supposed to healthier for a tree to rock in
the wind, as it does in nature.

A tree doesn't rock on its roots in nature. That would make a dead tree in short order. A tree's roots need to be immobile. If a tree's roots are constantly shifting, the root tips are damaged and the tree is unable to grow new root tips and new roots.

A tree's trunk and branches move in the wind... but not the roots. In fact, one of the benefits of wiring your tree into the pot is to prevent the kind of shifting you are talking about.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

My first thought this morning from last night was to wire a couple recently repotted trees down. I fear the wind would ruin my work. Especially in the shallow grow pots I use. Besides, it's good to practice good habits.

 

[Anthony]

@Bonsai Nut

http://www.naturalawakeningsmag.com/Natural-Awakenings/April-2015/Strong-Winds-Strong-Roots/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14871781

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ea17/d42b36e2673067d7ee240257f351c8e36646.pdf

https://academic.oup.com/jxb/article-abstract/46/9/1139/575781?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Food for thought.
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

The answer here might be in that Trinidad is a mild climate.
Wind presently at 9 miles per hour.
Will look to see how much stronger the winds get.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Dav4]

A tree that was growing 40 feet away from my benches fell and knocked this very large juniper from the bench... it was wired into the pot and the roots stayed in the pot, though the tree is a bit looser now and will need to be re-potted this spring. If it hadn't been wired in, I could have lost this one.

 

[rockm]

Scott,

I should also have said, that it is supposed to healthier for a tree to rock in
the wind, as it does in nature.
Supposed to strengthen the roots and ultimately the tree.

But point taken

*****I also add---------- I stand corrected.****

Good Day
Anthony

You're misinterpreting this. The tree that sways in the wind IS FIRMLY ANCHORED TO THE GROUND by roots, BIG roots. Trees with loose roots ARE REGULARLY BLOWN OVER.