Willowleaf Fig Bud Damage?

Klaus89

Seedling
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Pittsburgh, PA
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6
Have question about my willowleaf fig. I bought this last summer and let it grow in very large pot outdoors to thicken trunk (still in prebonsai stage - I plan to let grow very large), then moved it inside. Of course leaves drop and light levels was lower, but it start to recover, until I moved from Gulf Coast to colder region in early spring (so still cold this year at night) and plant was left in car at night during move, because pot too heavey to carry in hotel. This result in several branches dead from weakened condition.

Tree began to bud and send new shoots after move and I thought it finally recover, but new shoots are not like last year. They grow slow, produce tiny leaves and internodes and every internode produce buds very crazy. Is this some type of bud damage from the cold and will tree recover? Thanks for any tips! It now in full sun outside, since temperatures warm, but growth very slow.

14745607id.jpg
 
It looks the part... If you know for a fact that your tree was exposed
to the cold, then I would say it's safe to say that the problems are a
direct result of this...

Sorry to say but I think it is toast !!! The prob. is that the cells of the
tree actually freeze, then turn to mush when they thaw, and the tree's
system can no longer properly function. It can no longer send what it
needs through this damaged area to keep it alive, and it will not be able
to repair this damage.

Water very minimal, and try and get it some sun if possible, and just
wait and see...
Good Luck
:)
 
I cut away the dead parts to green wood. It has been outside in sun for month now and I fertilise regularly. It continues to send many buds out everywhere on trunk, but all are like I described earlier (small leaves and internodes with several internode buds as soon as large enough).

So I should probably throw it away? It is a shame, because it grew so much last year.
 
So I should probably throw it away? It is a shame, because it grew so much last year.

Don't. Just wait it out and see what happens. You won't lose anything holding to it. ;)

Leave it outside but probably better to stop fertilizing for now though.
 
Give it a chance, figs are resilient. Who knows maybe you'll find ficus salicaria '13.
 
The tree might be creating smaller internodes and leaves because it has more light in its new location. I wouldn't worry much if it keeps pushing out new growth. Ficus are pretty tough. Are you fertilizing?
 
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The tree might be creating smaller internodes and leaves because it has more light in its new location. I wouldn't worry much if it keeps pushing out new growth. Ficus are pretty tough.

While this is a possibility, I doubt it because of the leaf condition shown on the pic. They are not healthy looking. I am leaning towards stress that the tree hopefully can overcome.
 
While this is a possibility, I doubt it because of the leaf condition shown on the pic. They are not healthy looking. I am leaning towards stress that the tree hopefully can overcome.
Agreed... Leaves like this are more of a last ditch attempt to try and
save itself. It might pull through, who knows ??? If it does
don't do a thing to it the next year or two, just let it recover and build
strength.
 
I cut away the dead parts to green wood. It has been outside in sun for month now and I fertilise regularly. It continues to send many buds out everywhere on trunk, but all are like I described earlier (small leaves and internodes with several internode buds as soon as large enough).

So I should probably throw it away? It is a shame, because it grew so much last year.

You should not fertilize a sick or weak tree. Only after the tree starts growing well again, then you can start up again.

Rob
 
You should not fertilize a sick or weak tree. Only after the tree starts growing well again, then you can start up again.

Rob

What is the logic behind that? I have heard that advice and I have also heard that you should continue fertilizing when the tree isn't doing well to help it recover. If the salts aren't building up why not?
 
What is the logic behind that? I have heard that advice and I have also heard that you should continue fertilizing when the tree isn't doing well to help it recover. If the salts aren't building up why not?

That has always been the horticultural practice. Not only bonsai, but potted plants in general. I think it might due to many things. One, the build up of elements since the tree is not taking in much because it is sick. The buildup leading to an abundance of elements that might burn or have negative affects. Also, it is a waste of fertilizer, since the plant is not going to use it, why bother. Also, when you fertilize it makes the tree grow and work. When it is sick, it is best to leave it alone to rest and grow at it's own pace. Also, not knowing if the tree is going to make it, you could be fertilizing for nothing.

All these things are things that I have deduced and/or probably heard over the years. It sort of goes with not putting a tree in full, all day sun when the tree is sick or stressed. Just give it a chance to rest.

Rob
 
I've always wondered about the warning not to fertilize "sick"/weak trees (or trees that have just been collected or repotted). Provided you're using a weak enough solution, why would it cause any harm? If the tree isn't taking up much or any water (because it has no leaves, for example), then the fertilizer just won't get into the tree...so there should be no harm. I mean, just because you put it in the soil doesn't mean it winds up in the tree. Besides, with the fast draining soils we use, most of the fertilizer will wash out with the next watering. On the other hand, if the tree is looking for nutrients but can't find them, won't that keep it weak? And the amount it would cost to fertilize that one weak tree is so insignificant it really doesn't deserve mention (IMHO).

Chris
 
Don't know... I just know that it is not only the standard for bonsai, but potted trees and others. I remember watching landscaping shows for years and they said the same thing.:D

However, consider when a tree has been heavily root pruned or a newly collected tree. All recommendations are to keep the tree in shade for a couple of weeks. Sometimes, longer with collected trees. Now, since trees actually get their food from the sun, we are depriving them of this for a period of time. If we go by the thinking of what if the tree is looking for nutrients and it doesn't have them, then we would be providing sun for newly collected trees and heavily root pruned trees.

Personally, I do not have concrete scientific evidence of any of this. Except that trees get their food from the sun.:D I just don't fertilize trees that are sick or in decline. Some have come back some have not.

Rob
 
Biggest problem with fertilizing a sic tree is that it is very easily
burnt, that is all... and if one has a sick tree, there really isn't
any way of gauging how much to give a tree with it's condition...
To many variables... I myself don't fertilize until I feel the tree is
beginning to bounce back, and beginning to show signs of recovery...


It's like the cold weather... tree's are rated with a certain cold
tolerance... but, if a tree is not in the best of health, it will have
problems long before ever reaching that temp. I have learned that
because we are putting alot of stress on out trees by what we
do in Bonsai, that it's best not to let a tree even get close to
those temps...
:)
 
Don't know... I just know that it is not only the standard for bonsai, but potted trees and others. I remember watching landscaping shows for years and they said the same thing.:D

However, consider when a tree has been heavily root pruned or a newly collected tree. All recommendations are to keep the tree in shade for a couple of weeks. Sometimes, longer with collected trees. Now, since trees actually get their food from the sun, we are depriving them of this for a period of time. If we go by the thinking of what if the tree is looking for nutrients and it doesn't have them, then we would be providing sun for newly collected trees and heavily root pruned trees.

Personally, I do not have concrete scientific evidence of any of this. Except that trees get their food from the sun.:D I just don't fertilize trees that are sick or in decline. Some have come back some have not.

Rob

Plants don't need direct sun to photosynthesize...if they did, nothing could grow in the shade (or under artificial lights). Obviously more sun = more photosynthesis which in turn requires more water and nutrients from the roots. So keeping a recently root pruned (or collected) plant out of the direct sun for a while makes sense, since the damaged/reduced roots won't be able to provide the required water and nutrients until some regeneration occurs. So I don't think this is a completely valid analogy.


Biggest problem with fertilizing a sic tree is that it is very easily
burnt, that is all... and if one has a sick tree, there really isn't
any way of gauging how much to give a tree with it's condition...
To many variables... I myself don't fertilize until I feel the tree is
beginning to bounce back, and beginning to show signs of recovery...

What is easily burnt? And why?

Personally, I think this is one of those bonsai myths that is passed along. Many here (and elsewhere) will quote the articles written by Brent Walston. He has one called "Fertilizing Your Bonsai" (http://evergreengardenworks.com/fertiliz.htm). In the section "Fertilizing Sick Plants" he says in part:

Another common bonsai myth is that sick or recovering plants, or newly transplanted bonsai should not be fertilized. The analogy is that it will over feed the patient or is the equivalent of over dosing with vitamins. I think the proper analogy should be that feeding at half strength or not all is analogous to not taking your medicine, vitamins and nutrition when you are sick.

There's more, and it's worth a read if you haven't seen it. Something to think about.

Chris
 
Plants don't need direct sun to photosynthesize...if they did, nothing could grow in the shade (or under artificial lights). Obviously more sun = more photosynthesis which in turn requires more water and nutrients from the roots. So keeping a recently root pruned (or collected) plant out of the direct sun for a while makes sense, since the damaged/reduced roots won't be able to provide the required water and nutrients until some regeneration occurs. So I don't think this is a completely valid analogy.




What is easily burnt? And why?

Personally, I think this is one of those bonsai myths that is passed along. Many here (and elsewhere) will quote the articles written by Brent Walston. He has one called "Fertilizing Your Bonsai" (http://evergreengardenworks.com/fertiliz.htm). In the section "Fertilizing Sick Plants" he says in part:

Another common bonsai myth is that sick or recovering plants, or newly transplanted bonsai should not be fertilized. The analogy is that it will over feed the patient or is the equivalent of over dosing with vitamins. I think the proper analogy should be that feeding at half strength or not all is analogous to not taking your medicine, vitamins and nutrition when you are sick.

There's more, and it's worth a read if you haven't seen it. Something to think about.

Chris

I actually was just fertilizing a juniper I have two weeks ago... it is one of those water feed
setups that you get from the big box store where you attach it to your hose... well I guess
I wasn't paying attention when I attached it cause it pretty much just poured out of the
bottle when I went to water with it, luckily I managed to pull away so as to not empty the
the entire thing onto my tree... I washed if off really good with plain water, The next day
however, I went out and the foliage that did manage to get hit had turned brown and died.
So there is no myth here.

Not trying to disagree with you, but you can most certainly kill a tree in less than a day
if you over fertilize, and I am not even talking about a sick tree. Especially if you are
not using the slow-release pellets / capsules or the water feeds. These were made
specifically for this reason... Too many folks were not paying close attention to the
measurements or were getting their calculations wrong and were killing their plants and
trees.

One more thing if you are growing in a Bonsai mixture with an organic mix you don't
actually have to fertilize at all. The organic mix along with water and sun will give the
tree all that it needs to survive. The fertilizer in this case acts like a steroid or energy
drink... it just gets them racing !!! For those that use a Bonsai Mix with no organics
than the fertilizer is a must for it then acts as a supplement for the lack of the nutrients
that are missing.
:)
 
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Personally, I think this is one of those bonsai myths that is passed along.
I believe it is not a total myth. Problem is, it is applied to more situations that it should be.

I'll use something similar to your analogy. There are times when a sick person need to just sleep/rest. Others need to be on IV and cannot eat. A person severely dehydrated & famished cannot eat or drink right away...doing so may actually kill him.

Same is true with plants...roots do not absorb ready to consume stuff...it needs to work to process it. With compromised system (root, trunk, branches, leaves) I believe it is better to wait and see if the tree is ready (by showing signs of growth). Then slowly introduce fert. I also believe in salt burn as mentioned above...esp since I use more organic in my mix.

IMHO, moderation, realizing your own plants situation and acting accordingly is the key.
 
I actually was just fertilizing a juniper I have two weeks ago... it is one of those water feed
setups that you get from the big box store where you attach it to your hose... well I guess
I wasn't paying attention when I attached it cause it pretty much just poured out of the
bottle when I went to water with it, luckily I managed to pull away so as to not empty the
the entire thing onto my tree... I washed if off really good with plain water, The next day
however, I went out and the foliage that did manage to get hit had turned brown and died.
So there is no myth here.
So what are you saying here - the fertilizer got on the foliage full strenth and burned it? That's fine, but it's not really the subject here. We're talking about using normal or weak strength fertilizer on the root system.

Not trying to disagree with you, but you can most certainly kill a tree in less than a day
if you over fertilize, and I am not even talking about a sick tree. Especially if you are
not using the slow-release pellets / capsules or the water feeds. These were made
specifically for this reason... Too many folks were not paying close attention to the
measurements or were getting their calculations wrong and were killing their plants and
trees.
Of course you can harm a potted plant by over-fertilizing! That's not being questioned, we're talking about using normal or weaker than normal fertilizer on a plant.

One more thing if you are growing in a Bonsai mixture with an organic mix you don't
actually have to fertilize at all. The organic mix along with water and sun will give the
tree all that it needs to survive. The fertilizer in this case acts like a steroid or energy
drink... it just gets them racing !!! For those that use a Bonsai Mix with no organics
than the fertilizer is a must for it then acts as a supplement for the lack of the nutrients
that are missing.
:)
Well, in theory that might be true, at least to a point. But I wouldn't want to rely entirely on that. What if the organic component is deficient in one or more elements? Or becomes depleted after time?

Chris
 
I believe it is not a total myth. Problem is, it is applied to more situations that it should be.

I'll use something similar to your analogy. There are times when a sick person need to just sleep/rest. Others need to be on IV and cannot eat. A person severely dehydrated & famished cannot eat or drink right away...doing so may actually kill him.

Same is true with plants...roots do not absorb ready to consume stuff...it needs to work to process it. With compromised system (root, trunk, branches, leaves) I believe it is better to wait and see if the tree is ready (by showing signs of growth). Then slowly introduce fert. I also believe in salt burn as mentioned above...esp since I use more organic in my mix.

IMHO, moderation, realizing your own plants situation and acting accordingly is the key.
But Dario, what do you think is in that IV? Saline solution, sugar, electrolytes and possibly more depending on the situation. The IV is providing a controlled amount of nutrition directly to the bloodstream. And yes, severe dehydration (or starvation) requires careful introduction of nutrients from what I understand...but not complete witholding.

I think the example of using an IV is similar to using foliar feeding on a plant that has a compromised root system.

Can anyone can point me to a controlled study that compared fertilizing vs no fertilizing for recently repotted (or collected, leaf pruned, etc) trees (or any plants), I'd love to see that. Otherwise I remain skeptical.

Chris
 
Chris,

Foliar feeding is not same as IV. Foliar fed nutrients still have to be converted via photosynthesis which is work for the tree (which I equate to digestion). Again...it depends on how bad the condition is.

I have collected trees that I fertilize at potting...just because I know how I collected it. They do not even skip a beat. There are trees I did not fertilize until a month or so later. I observe the tree (listen) and act accordingly. I do not like/follow blanket statements/limitations (in case you haven't noticed yet) ;) LOL
 
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