Winged Elm - to chop now or not?

[IllinoisSam]

I collected this winged elm last February and it seems to be doing pretty well. My quandary is what to do with it next? The trunk is about 1-1/4" in diameter and it's 8" tall. There are two "sucker" shoots coming out of the base and I figure I'll leave them for now as sacrificial branches to thicken the trunk. As you can see, there are a lot up shoots coming out of the top which I have been thinning a bit. But at this point, I can't envision what to do with it next, given the fairly straight trunk. I just watched a long Peter Chan video on developing taper and through continual chopping he is able to develop a nice tree. I thought perhaps over time I could do the same, but I think to do that, I'm off on the wrong foot. So today, I am thinking about chopping it about half way down and developing the shoots all over again. Is this likely to succeed given that we're half way through June?

If I didn't chop, what would be a likely alternative style for this tree? What does the brain trust think?

 

[0soyoung]

Those low shoots won't do much to thicken the trunk below them until they are nearly the same thickness as the trunk below them. Then you will have some large scars to 'heal'.
Those high shoots won't do much to thicken the trunk below them until they are nearly the same thickness as the trunk below them. Then you will have a knob where they all are.
If you keep only one apical shoot, it won't do much to thicken the trunk below it until it is nearly the same thickness as the trunk below it. Thus you can create a tapering trunk.

Bonsai height ought to be only about 6 to 12 times the low trunk diameter. Taller is suitable for curvy (feminine) forms and tends toward literati. Shorter is suitable for angular (masculine) forms and tends toward sumo. The lowest branch ought to be about one-third the height. By these guidelines, I'd say that your trunk ought to be copped to about one-third it's present height. Then you would adopt a shoot to be the next trunk section, maybe using a bit of wire when it is going and pliable to direct it in a way that pleases you. When it gets nearly as thick as the trunk bellow it, you repeat this process, chopping it to roughly one-third of the lower trunk's length. Then you build the atypical section and branches.

But, if you want a bigger bonsai, keep growing it for several more years until the lower trunk is the thicknesses you want; probably in a shallow box like often used for maples (nebari developed at the same time).

Elm bonsais are very commonly broom forms = a trunk with a hemispherical helmet of foliage. This form is outside 'the rules'. Personally, I like a squat trunk with a broad canopy, but I suggest that you sketch a silhouette to determine the proportions you like. Then go chop your trunk accordingly. From there on, development is simple clip and grow, much like shearing hedges.

 

[IllinoisSam]

Those low shoots won't do much to thicken the trunk below them until they are nearly the same thickness as the trunk below them. Then you will have some large scars to 'heal'.
Those high shoots won't do much to thicken the trunk below them until they are nearly the same thickness as the trunk below them. Then you will have a knob where they all are.
If you keep only one apical shoot, it won't do much to thicken the trunk below it until it is nearly the same thickness as the trunk below it. Thus you can create a tapering trunk.

Bonsai height ought to be only about 6 to 12 times the low trunk diameter. Taller is suitable for curvy (feminine) forms and tends toward literati. Shorter is suitable for angular (masculine) forms and tends toward sumo. The lowest branch ought to be about one-third the height. By these guidelines, I'd say that your trunk ought to be copped to about one-third it's present height. Then you would adopt a shoot to be the next trunk section, maybe using a bit of wire when it is going and pliable to direct it in a way that pleases you. When it gets nearly as thick as the trunk bellow it, you repeat this process, chopping it to roughly one-third of the lower trunk's length. Then you build the atypical section and branches.

But, if you want a bigger bonsai, keep growing it for several more years until the lower trunk is the thicknesses you want; probably in a shallow box like often used for maples (nebari developed at the same time).

Elm bonsais are very commonly broom forms = a trunk with a hemispherical helmet of foliage. This form is outside 'the rules'. Personally, I like a squat trunk with a broad canopy, but I suggest that you sketch a silhouette to determine the proportions you like. Then go chop your trunk accordingly. From there on, development is simple clip and grow, much like shearing hedges.

Thank you. That is very concise and helpful.

 

[Shibui]

Agree that shoots very close to the roots will cause more trouble than they will help. I'd get rid of them now while still small.
Whether to chop again depends on your aim.
8" tall trunk equates to around 24" tall bonsai given the oft used 3:1 ratio. If you're happy to develop a 24" tree then keep growing the shoots as they are.
Short, stout bonsai as @0soyoung mentioned will either take time for the trunk to thicken for a 24" tree or needs to be shortened to match the current trunk diameter then grown again.
If you decide to chop lower I would wait until next year. Elms are tough and resilient and it will probably cope with a second chop in 1 year but response will be less vigorous due to reduced reserves. Allowing good growth for a year will allow roots to grow and the trunk to store more resources after which it should respond far better to the next chop. I know that waiting can be frustrating but better to wait 1 year than have to start all over when it dies after a second chop too quick. Your choice based on what sort of a gambler you feel like today and whether you have plenty of replacements for this one.

Style may impact the decision. Broom was mentioned and is a classic elm style. Traditional styling has rigid rules with excellent nebari and vertical trunk desirable but many growers are accepting less rigid definitions and moving to the 'natural' style. You may also be able to stand the trunk up straighter depending on the current root system.

Informal upright will require thinning out most of the new top shoots and keeping just 1 for the next section of trunk and 1 or 2 for possible branches. Allow the new trunk shoot to grow for a year, cut back and repeat until the tree is shaped while trimming the branches occasionally to develop ramification and hold back excess thickening.

 

[IllinoisSam]

Agree that shoots very close to the roots will cause more trouble than they will help. I'd get rid of them now while still small.
Whether to chop again depends on your aim.
8" tall trunk equates to around 24" tall bonsai given the oft used 3:1 ratio. If you're happy to develop a 24" tree then keep growing the shoots as they are.
Short, stout bonsai as @0soyoung mentioned will either take time for the trunk to thicken for a 24" tree or needs to be shortened to match the current trunk diameter then grown again.
If you decide to chop lower I would wait until next year. Elms are tough and resilient and it will probably cope with a second chop in 1 year but response will be less vigorous due to reduced reserves. Allowing good growth for a year will allow roots to grow and the trunk to store more resources after which it should respond far better to the next chop. I know that waiting can be frustrating but better to wait 1 year than have to start all over when it dies after a second chop too quick. Your choice based on what sort of a gambler you feel like today and whether you have plenty of replacements for this one.

Style may impact the decision. Broom was mentioned and is a classic elm style. Traditional styling has rigid rules with excellent nebari and vertical trunk desirable but many growers are accepting less rigid definitions and moving to the 'natural' style. You may also be able to stand the trunk up straighter depending on the current root system.

Informal upright will require thinning out most of the new top shoots and keeping just 1 for the next section of trunk and 1 or 2 for possible branches. Allow the new trunk shoot to grow for a year, cut back and repeat until the tree is shaped while trimming the branches occasionally to develop ramification and hold back excess thickening.

Thanks for giving me more to consider.

 

[sorce]

I'd layer this about 1/3 down from the old chop and make that a broom. Now.

Then let what sprouts below that become another.

I believe some elms are more genetically prone to sprout a ring of buds around a chop then others. This seems so prone.

So dealing with the resulting ring of buds may be necessary if you want to keep that design or not.

Since a layer may help mitigate a ring of buds, being covered for a while, you could possibly use that to your advantage if you wish to have a different style tree than what the top offers.

Just don't waste 6-8 years.

Ulmus Pole to Dos.

Starting a thread on this since I'm accessing old pics right now. This pic was from 05/2012. Gotta post new ones from the phone. Sorce

www.bonsainut.com

Sorce