Giga
Masterpiece
I posted a while ago a large black pine I got but I have a general black pine question as I have a few. I've been mostly doing all my bending and pruning in the fall, but my question is can you do larger bending in the winter?
Winter black pine work
- Thread starter Giga
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Giga
Masterpiece
Yeah, thanks! I saw that on Peter tea's blog too ill just try and protect from hard frost if they bends cause any breaking
Giga
Masterpiece
I styled my large black pine, I just have a couple questions as I haven't done suck a large pine before.
I have remove most the branches and have removed the top as well. I used the branch in the 4th picture down(massive black pine from blog). I have wrapped it n' such and bent it around 60 degrees, a major bend. There was no cracking that I could hear but I'm sure the cambium is slightly damaged. He are my questions
I have removed around 65% of all the branches but have left a few here at there, can I remove the rest and just keep what I want for the style?
It's planted in a nursery container and is packed with roots, I don't plan on repotting it this spring so am I able to cradle prune this year base on if it grows strongly?
How much protection do I need to give it? Should I protect it from freezeing temapture? Or should it just be fine? I have been playing the game of moving it to my garage every time the weather is freezing outside.
Also this is a general question and pertains to this tree, due to the size and style a Shari and Jin will be needed to make it look good. While not common I will use preservers and such to keep it well maintained. When can this be done and does this need to be done in stages or all at once? The part past the live is fine as I can work any time but I mainly wondering about the area where the live vine is concerned. Or should I just let it die back naturally and just remove it then?
I have remove most the branches and have removed the top as well. I used the branch in the 4th picture down(massive black pine from blog). I have wrapped it n' such and bent it around 60 degrees, a major bend. There was no cracking that I could hear but I'm sure the cambium is slightly damaged. He are my questions
I have removed around 65% of all the branches but have left a few here at there, can I remove the rest and just keep what I want for the style?
It's planted in a nursery container and is packed with roots, I don't plan on repotting it this spring so am I able to cradle prune this year base on if it grows strongly?
How much protection do I need to give it? Should I protect it from freezeing temapture? Or should it just be fine? I have been playing the game of moving it to my garage every time the weather is freezing outside.
Also this is a general question and pertains to this tree, due to the size and style a Shari and Jin will be needed to make it look good. While not common I will use preservers and such to keep it well maintained. When can this be done and does this need to be done in stages or all at once? The part past the live is fine as I can work any time but I mainly wondering about the area where the live vine is concerned. Or should I just let it die back naturally and just remove it then?
Without a couple of pictures of the current condition, it's impossible to give you any specific comments.
But, if you have removed 50 percent of the foliage, that's enough for this year. Bonsai is a marathon, not a sprint.
Generally speaking, Jin and Shari are not used for JBP, especially using lime sulphur to make them white. The white deadwood thing is for mountain trees. JBP are coastal trees, and their deadwood rots away pretty quickly. I'm not going to say they should never be used, just use them with disgression.
That sounds like a major bend, the safe route is to continue to protect it from freezing.
If you fertilize heavily this spring, and get strong candles, you could decandle this summer.
Of course, the best thing you can do for your pine is to get it into good bonsai soil. I think a "half bare root" repot would be appropriate this spring.
But, if you have removed 50 percent of the foliage, that's enough for this year. Bonsai is a marathon, not a sprint.
Generally speaking, Jin and Shari are not used for JBP, especially using lime sulphur to make them white. The white deadwood thing is for mountain trees. JBP are coastal trees, and their deadwood rots away pretty quickly. I'm not going to say they should never be used, just use them with disgression.
That sounds like a major bend, the safe route is to continue to protect it from freezing.
If you fertilize heavily this spring, and get strong candles, you could decandle this summer.
Of course, the best thing you can do for your pine is to get it into good bonsai soil. I think a "half bare root" repot would be appropriate this spring.
Giga
Masterpiece
I have pics there just at my home pc so once I get home I'll post them.
The thought pattern when I original post the tree on here it was advised to chop it down to the first branch eliminating 80 of the tree, and with the massive root ball it will be able to respond strongly. I can do a half bare root though.
I know there not known for dead wood, but I know it does happen in the wild so it would be cool for a rotted out pine kind of thing. I would use a higher % ink in the lime sulfur.
when would you then remove the rest of the branches?
The thought pattern when I original post the tree on here it was advised to chop it down to the first branch eliminating 80 of the tree, and with the massive root ball it will be able to respond strongly. I can do a half bare root though.
I know there not known for dead wood, but I know it does happen in the wild so it would be cool for a rotted out pine kind of thing. I would use a higher % ink in the lime sulfur.
when would you then remove the rest of the branches?
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Giga
Masterpiece
I posted a few ok pics in my blog
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
Can you post a pic of the whole tree with the work done?
Giga
Masterpiece
Yeah I will tomorrow
Giga
Masterpiece
By tomorrow I meant a few week from then lol sorry bout that 
It's a little hard to see because there excess branches all over the place and long needles, but you get the general idea for now.
It's a little hard to see because there excess branches all over the place and long needles, but you get the general idea for now.
Giga
Masterpiece
Lol I take that as you don't like it thus far. One thing I've learned is that life is short and never be afraid to do something becuase you feel you can't, or something like that. I do know how to graft, just did about 40 grafts yester day. I'm gonna half repot this spring and then let the tree tell me which way it wants to go after I cotorted it so. Then I'll graft where I want if need be.
Since this was such a good deal and is basicly a blank slate im gonna make something interesting and I have a good idea of how I want this tree to go.
Since this was such a good deal and is basicly a blank slate im gonna make something interesting and I have a good idea of how I want this tree to go.
Giga,
It's just that no matter what you do, it's always going to have that straight trunk, then one branch pulled down, and you're gonna put all kinds of bends and curves and whatnots in that branch. The tree won't be consistent. I mean, I can see a lightning strike killing the top and creating the Jin. But why is it growing at a slant? Trees don't grow at a straight slant. They would bend up towards the light. And then, after the lightning strike, why is the remaining branch growing back down like a cascade? All curvy? It just doesn't make sense to me.
So, what I'd do would be to return this tree back into being what it was, (or appears to be) a formal upright. Graft on all the branches that should be there, plus a few extra. These extra can be jinned later.
It's just that no matter what you do, it's always going to have that straight trunk, then one branch pulled down, and you're gonna put all kinds of bends and curves and whatnots in that branch. The tree won't be consistent. I mean, I can see a lightning strike killing the top and creating the Jin. But why is it growing at a slant? Trees don't grow at a straight slant. They would bend up towards the light. And then, after the lightning strike, why is the remaining branch growing back down like a cascade? All curvy? It just doesn't make sense to me.
So, what I'd do would be to return this tree back into being what it was, (or appears to be) a formal upright. Graft on all the branches that should be there, plus a few extra. These extra can be jinned later.
Giga
Masterpiece
While it may not make sense to you or even speak to you at all. Bonsai is an art form and this tree is me trying to find my art. I'm using this tree to experiment and find something different, new(for me anyway) I only have 5 or so years under my belt for bonsai and I'm ready to take the next step deeper in the pond, while I have plenty of other trees that make "sense" when you look at them I'm going for something different here. I'm don't dis value your input at all I'm just explain where I'm coming from on this tree specifically.
Braches due grow down-yes this tree has more curves and interest and I will be taking care of the trunk on this pine to make it not such a bean pole, But say the top part was stuck and died then all that's left is the bottom branch. Then it would be growing back over the trunk line. My tree bones are similar to this(minus the curves) but once it's ramified carved and short needles, it could be interesting.
I just feel Never is too strong a word to be use in Bonsai. Trees grow at a straight slant all the time. I've seen it my self-a lot at coast lines, where black pines come from.
Also I know people say dead wood is not done on black pine but I have seen it done, like here
I also see it(dead wood and hollows) a lot on Virginia pines(like weeds in my area) which is a coastal pine. I saw this on one of of my trips and I'll have to take some picture next time I'm walking the trails. This tree is very young in terms of it's styling so give it 5 or so year. And while it may not "make sense" it will be very interesting to look at no doubt
Braches due grow down-yes this tree has more curves and interest and I will be taking care of the trunk on this pine to make it not such a bean pole, But say the top part was stuck and died then all that's left is the bottom branch. Then it would be growing back over the trunk line. My tree bones are similar to this(minus the curves) but once it's ramified carved and short needles, it could be interesting.
I just feel Never is too strong a word to be use in Bonsai. Trees grow at a straight slant all the time. I've seen it my self-a lot at coast lines, where black pines come from.
Also I know people say dead wood is not done on black pine but I have seen it done, like here
I also see it(dead wood and hollows) a lot on Virginia pines(like weeds in my area) which is a coastal pine. I saw this on one of of my trips and I'll have to take some picture next time I'm walking the trails. This tree is very young in terms of it's styling so give it 5 or so year. And while it may not "make sense" it will be very interesting to look at no doubt
Your first picture is a high mountain tree. Obviously affected by heavy snows. JBP are coastal trees, not high mountain. Certainly, cascades can happen. But the cascade should start much lower on the trunk.
Second and third photos are slants of trees that are in the process of falling down. They grew straight up and then something happened. The first pic shows young trees that look like they've been bent by an ice storm. We generally strive to make our bonsai look like old trees, not young trees.
Your second photo shows a tree growing on a river bank whose roots are being under cut. It will eventually fall into the river. Meanwhile, as you can see, the apex is trying to grow up.
And your final picture about JBP and deadwood. Yes, there are JBP bonsai with deadwood. They are the exception, not the rule. The reason is, being coastal trees, their wood is soft and rots quickly. The air is humid and insects and fungus and mold break it down quickly. Not do with the high mountain trees. The air is dry, the sun dries the wood, bleaches it, and hardens it. Fewer molds and insects to eat it. It will last and be a permanent feature of the tree.
Of course, you are free to do whatever you want, and style your tree however you like. I hope you have fun with it!
Second and third photos are slants of trees that are in the process of falling down. They grew straight up and then something happened. The first pic shows young trees that look like they've been bent by an ice storm. We generally strive to make our bonsai look like old trees, not young trees.
Your second photo shows a tree growing on a river bank whose roots are being under cut. It will eventually fall into the river. Meanwhile, as you can see, the apex is trying to grow up.
And your final picture about JBP and deadwood. Yes, there are JBP bonsai with deadwood. They are the exception, not the rule. The reason is, being coastal trees, their wood is soft and rots quickly. The air is humid and insects and fungus and mold break it down quickly. Not do with the high mountain trees. The air is dry, the sun dries the wood, bleaches it, and hardens it. Fewer molds and insects to eat it. It will last and be a permanent feature of the tree.
Of course, you are free to do whatever you want, and style your tree however you like. I hope you have fun with it!
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I agree.
[gibberish to satisfy the minimum post length requirements]
Giga
Masterpiece
Yeah I understand the difference from high mountain trees and coastal, from where I live and when I collect at about 4000' collecting pitch pine. Since the price was so good I want to make something really interesting and that's really has been beaten by the elements. This one is going to be named Ravaged or something like that as it's going to be something that has been hit by lighting, hit by hurricanes and the like.
As where having this debate it's forming more and more where I want to go and how this should look. I know we want "old" looking(and actually old) tree's, My bald cypress and spruce and most the rest will appear old. I think I want something that has really struggled to survive. I have changed the design slightly, and I thank you for the idea's, more upright and growing up more.
eugen_onegin
Mame
If I may chime in here...
I think what Adair was getting at is why struggle with a tree that could easily become a great upright. No ones knocking the artistic direction of what you want to accomplish. It just may be easier/quicker to find a tree to accomplish your initial design.
Jus' say'n...
I think what Adair was getting at is why struggle with a tree that could easily become a great upright. No ones knocking the artistic direction of what you want to accomplish. It just may be easier/quicker to find a tree to accomplish your initial design.
Jus' say'n...
Giga
Masterpiece
It would be the simpler, ez'er route and it maybe be a better looking tree too. In the end, maybe that will happen but I want to try something new and really try and make something unique. Of the 40 or so tree's I have, they are mostly all following the set "rules" that we use for bonsai-With this one I decided to go a little outside the box here. Maybe I learn something, maybe I don't but as long as I don't kill the tree and put it first I think it should be fun, but who knows maybe I'm making a big mistake. I'll keep ya all updated on the tree and should be an interesting ride in the next 5 or so years
Kinda like this strange tree-I bet when this tree first started out people didn't like it much
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2011/12/24/the-strange-trident-maple/
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