Winter Storage Above Ground

jimlau

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I will not have enough ground in which to put my trees for the winter, so 1 or 2 will have to be on a patio against a wall.

My 9" burning bush is in a 12" diameter, 4" high pot. How big of a container or box would I need to put this potted bush to best ensure the tree will survive? I believe avoiding freeze thaw cycles and early budding are the dangers?

Thanks.

(zone 6)
 

Paradox

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Do you have an unheated garage or shed with space to put them? You would probably have better luck if you can use something like that to overwinter your trees. I lost a couple of trees because I left them outside.
 

jimlau

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no, I don't. I live in an apartment. I use some of the building's ground, but have reached the limit.

my very large mulberry and aspen survive in big pots (18" diameter, 8" high) on the patio in the shade. currently the bush is in the smaller pot. i'm hoping if I can get it into a pot the size of the mulberry, it may make it. I may have a Japanese maple as well. those I don't think are as hardy as the above 3.
 

Paradox

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It really depends on the species. Some can handle their roots being frozen, some can not. I don't think a larger container will prevent the soil from freezing when it gets cold.

I have a scots pine that I leave out on the bench exposed all winter and it doesn't even flinch.
My maples I move inside because if left out, they would die. As and experiment, I left a San Jose juniper outside last winter and it seemed to survive it fine while a J. Pro nana died. For what its worth though, another San Jose juni I brought inside is growing more vigorously than the one I left outside.

I don't think burning bush can survive its roots being frozen.
I've heard of people making enclosures next to the house with a wood frame and covered in plastic. You have to be careful not to allow it to heat up too much on warmer, sunny winter days. I don't know how well those types of things worked for them though.
 

jimlau

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I assume all trees buried outside have their roots frozen. My burning bush has done just fine in previous years it was buried. The ideal situation I thought being they freeze and stay that way til spring. I mean, non-bonsai burning bushes survive just fine in this area, even small/new ones.

The ones you left outside unburied, did u leave them in their pot, without further mulching or protection?

Thanks.
 

Paradox

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It was my understanding that the point of burying them is to keep the roots from freezing. I could be mistaken. In any case, you do want to prevent freezing then thawing and freezing again.

Once you put something in a pot you can't assume what applies to a landscape specimen goes for a potted specimen. The landscape trees have roots that extend below the line of freezing.

Yes, I left them out in their training pots. It was an experiment to see if they would live. The scots pine has been left out for 2 years now and only brought in if we were expecting heavy snow to protect the branches. Since I have an unheated garage, I just put my trees in there instead of going through burying and mulching them which is a lot more work.

I hope someone with more experience with your situation can answer so you can get it figured out.
Good luck
 
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pwk5017

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Where in PA? Im south of Pittsburgh, and I have mulched my plants for the last 5 years--really no problems. I had some dieback on my tridents before, but Japanese Maples do just fine. JBP have required very little protection. I could leave my old scots pines out with no protection and they would be fine. Reall,y the maples are the only thing I worry about. I think this winter I will build a little coldframe/poly house to protect them. In general, temps below 28ish and maples make me nervous.
 

jimlau

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Where in PA? Im south of Pittsburgh, and I have mulched my plants for the last 5 years--really no problems. I had some dieback on my tridents before, but Japanese Maples do just fine. JBP have required very little protection. I could leave my old scots pines out with no protection and they would be fine. Reall,y the maples are the only thing I worry about. I think this winter I will build a little coldframe/poly house to protect them. In general, temps below 28ish and maples make me nervous.

i'm in Pittsburgh. when u say u mulched, do u mean the pots are still above ground and u pack mulch around them?
 

RichKid

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I'm in Philadelphia. Considered zone 7 tho. N I left my burning bush, which is much smaller n lots of Japanese maples out all winter against the house w just mulch over them and they all were fine. No dieback at all and these are younger less hardy plants. I think they'll be fine
 

jimlau

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I'm in Philadelphia. Considered zone 7 tho. N I left my burning bush, which is much smaller n lots of Japanese maples out all winter against the house w just mulch over them and they all were fine. No dieback at all and these are younger less hardy plants. I think they'll be fine

these were in pots above ground?
 

Dav4

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I assume all trees buried outside have their roots frozen. My burning bush has done just fine in previous years it was buried. The ideal situation I thought being they freeze and stay that way til spring. I mean, non-bonsai burning bushes survive just fine in this area, even small/new ones.

The ones you left outside unburied, did u leave them in their pot, without further mulching or protection?

Thanks.

You are correct. Temperate trees, potted or planted in the ground....maples- tridents, Japanese, etc, junipers, burning bush, etc., all can easily deal with sub freezing weather. Yes, they can have the soil in their pots freeze, and it can stay frozen for months on end without any detrimental side effects. Freeze-thawing could potentially be an issue (in my experience a minimal one), but is easily avoided by placing the trees in pots in an area out of direct sunshine (and wind) and mulching the pots with wood chips. Water them in, let them freeze in December and leave them alone until the mulch thaws next March. I've heard tridents are sensitive to frozen roots, but I've had my tridents freeze solid and they stayed that way in my garage in zone 6 MA from December until April with no issues at all.

Fwiw, when I hear about trees that are winter hardy in your zone that die over the winter, I would look back to the previous growing season. Trees that are weakened due to summer heat or drought stress, insect or fungal disease, or poor horticultural technique (read that as bad soil or watering issues, not enough light, etc) are the ones that are most likely to succumb during winter dormancy, and it generally has nothing to do with how cold they are.

PS I had a burning bush potted and being trained for several years before moving to GA. They are hardy to usda zone 4, I believe. Let it freeze solid, keep it out of winter wind and sun, mulch the rootzone to prevent large temp swings, and it will be fine.
 
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lordy

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Mine are in pots sitting on the ground/mulch, agains the north-facing foundation of my house. Around them I have 3 old exterior doors laying on their sides creating a wind-break. Those are tied together to form a square of space for my trees. Around the pots I pack in pine needles because I have a bunch of big white pines. I put that stuff right up to the bottom branches. The area is open to the sky for rain and snow (more good insulation against thawing). To recap: no wind, mulched to keep out the warmth, always in the shade from Nov. to March, open to the skies. A pretty happy bunch of trees they are.
 

pwk5017

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i'm in Pittsburgh. when u say u mulched, do u mean the pots are still above ground and u pack mulch around them?

Yep, under/inbetween my benches with 3" of mulch around and on top of the pots. No problems. We usually have some snow, so that only adds to the insulation.
 

GrimLore

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Buy some large plastic Sterlite ctns at Wally world as tall as possible. Place about 6 inches of that pine horse bedding(pure pine chip) from the Agway in them. Place in the pots and bury them in the pine going 4-5 inches above the soil. If you have a porch place them under the roof, if not and the weather is more wet then expected drill out 6-10 drain holes in them bot not large enough to invite voles. We do that with a lot of our larger potted items and they do well :cool:
 
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