Winter Storage removal SurpriseS

[ml_work]

With the DLS change I had about an hour of daylight left after work and gym. I figured I would take my trees out of the small house that is really for our well filter. I rebuilt it a few years ago with transparent roof and tall enough for some trees. We have a light that hangs from a bungee cord to keep the filter warm when the temp gets real low and helps the trees from getting too hard a freeze. I check it about every 2-3 weeks throughout the winter and water if needed. I noticed a few weeks ago some white covering on one of my Japanese Maple Arakawa that I had from air layer a few years ago. Last year just as leaves were falling off I looked out the window and see a deer eating my maples, I open the window to scare them (2 doe) , one turns and runs and the other jumps, from a stand still, over this maple. Is broke the half of the top that Y , so I put putty on the break and hoped the top would continue to grow and continue the size of the trunk.


I thought the white was from the die back from the break.
Well today to my surprise , some of the others had the white (maybe aphids ?) stuff and branches dying!


I did not try to scrap the stuff off, just cut the entire branch and had to cut the top out of 2 of them. This was my first attempt at air layer and had done well for 3 years, maybe more.
So now that I have the JM out I got the last 2 trees, bald cypress . Got the fist one, not too big, took it and the pan that it sit in out under the pines. Then I get the last one in the corner, it has a top leader making the tree about 8 foot tall, potted in a milk crate sitting in a container of water. I lift it up and let the water drain out of the soil as it is pretty heavy. Lift it up and move a couple of feet, sit it down, lift again and start coming out the door, the top leader being so tall hits the bungee cord that is attached to the roof joist and knocks it down, I feel it hit my head and then plop on my neck and shoulder and falling into the milk create the tree is in .... wait a minute ... the bungee cord is Red ... this is brown .. camo ..... Surprise ! SNAKE !
Now I am trying to get away from it without dropping the tree. It craws out and goes under the crate as it sits up on the bottom 2x4 of the door. I got a shovel and he is gone now. Started to include a picture but figured some people might not want to see a snake and some may not want to see a dead snake. Around my home, a snake, stick that looks like a snake, garden hose that looks like a snake ... are Gone. Yeah I know the non venomous will keep rats or whatever down and will not hurt you, but they will make me hurt myself! This one looked venomous, had the triangle head.
As I was cutting back the branches on the JM my wife called out the window, are you seeing snakes everywhere now, Yep .
I think to myself , I was about to ask her to help me with that tree as it is heavy, so then it would have been the 2 of us trying to get out of the small doorway and away from the snake, could have been a wreck.
Maybe it was living in the tree and water or just in the room and had run to the corner and top of tree when I was taking them out.

 

[GailC]

No picture of the snake?

 

[Cajunrider]

After finding a water moccasin hiding under one of my grow box some year back, I now will take all precaution before lifting any pot, grow box, or anything that has a space for the snake to hide.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

With the DLS change I had about an hour of daylight left after work and gym. I figured I would take my trees out of the small house that is really for our well filter. I rebuilt it a few years ago with transparent roof and tall enough for some trees. We have a light that hangs from a bungee cord to keep the filter warm when the temp gets real low and helps the trees from getting too hard a freeze. I check it about every 2-3 weeks throughout the winter and water if needed. I noticed a few weeks ago some white covering on one of my Japanese Maple Arakawa that I had from air layer a few years ago. Last year just as leaves were falling off I looked out the window and see a deer eating my maples, I open the window to scare them (2 doe) , one turns and runs and the other jumps, from a stand still, over this maple. Is broke the half of the top that Y , so I put putty on the break and hoped the top would continue to grow and continue the size of the trunk.

View attachment 288116
I thought the white was from the die back from the break.
Well today to my surprise , some of the others had the white (maybe aphids ?) stuff and branches dying!

View attachment 288120View attachment 288121
I did not try to scrap the stuff off, just cut the entire branch and had to cut the top out of 2 of them. This was my first attempt at air layer and had done well for 3 years, maybe more.
So now that I have the JM out I got the last 2 trees, bald cypress . Got the fist one, not too big, took it and the pan that it sit in out under the pines. Then I get the last one in the corner, it has a top leader making the tree about 8 foot tall, potted in a milk crate sitting in a container of water. I lift it up and let the water drain out of the soil as it is pretty heavy. Lift it up and move a couple of feet, sit it down, lift again and start coming out the door, the top leader being so tall hits the bungee cord that is attached to the roof joist and knocks it down, I feel it hit my head and then plop on my neck and shoulder and falling into the milk create the tree is in .... wait a minute ... the bungee cord is Red ... this is brown .. camo ..... Surprise ! SNAKE !
Now I am trying to get away from it without dropping the tree. It craws out and goes under the crate as it sits up on the bottom 2x4 of the door. I got a shovel and he is gone now. Started to include a picture but figured some people might not want to see a snake and some may not want to see a dead snake. Around my home, a snake, stick that looks like a snake, garden hose that looks like a snake ... are Gone. Yeah I know the non venomous will keep rats or whatever down and will not hurt you, but they will make me hurt myself! This one looked venomous, had the triangle head.
As I was cutting back the branches on the JM my wife called out the window, are you seeing snakes everywhere now, Yep .
I think to myself , I was about to ask her to help me with that tree as it is heavy, so then it would have been the 2 of us trying to get out of the small doorway and away from the snake, could have been a wreck.
Maybe it was living in the tree and water or just in the room and had run to the corner and top of tree when I was taking them out.

Looks like some kind of fungal/mildew type of thing to me. Never seen a massive infestation of aphids in the winter. What does this little filter house you have the trees in look like? Is there any openings so that air can circulate to some degree inside there? How warm does it stay? A humid environment with little air circulation will promote fungal pathogens. Furthermore an environment where there are not normal temperature swings (getting colder somewhat regularly etc) will promote fungal/mold growth, especially with no air circulation.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

You’re in Alabama, I think you would be much better off just keeping your trees on the ground outside. I keep Japanese maples and bald cypress outside on the ground mulched in in the winter here in upstate NY where it is way colder, and they do great. This may be a case of OVER-overwintering?

 

[ml_work]

Cajunrider, I agree, the room does not have a floor, just grey rocks so I put boards on the rocks for the tree so sit on just in case roots try to grow out of the pot. I did NOT pick up the boards yesterday, will Saturday and hope any visitors have gone if they were there. I thought the snake may be a moccasin, there is a small pond right off our property.
Mike, thanks for the information. The room is no where air tight, it has some are space at the top and one side is not all the way to the ground, most likely where the snake got in. I was going to get that closed just never got to it, but will now. In the past I have keep bald cypress outside too, this one was given to me by a friend that had grown it from a stick and he put it in a green house in winter so I have tired to follow how he was doing it for the past 15 years. The room is really the same temp as the outside. The light is 60 watt bulb, so it does not give much heat. but saying all that I am not disagreeing with your thinking. Water does run in through the rocks when we have a hard rain, so it may be too humid. the water coming in will stop once I get the side closed up, about 6 inch open at the bottom.
One of the reasons for moving them inside was the deer eating what leaves have not come off as winter starts.
I will think about this for the coming winter
Thanks

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Cajunrider, I agree, the room does not have a floor, just grey rocks so I put boards on the rocks for the tree so sit on just in case roots try to grow out of the pot. I did NOT pick up the boards yesterday, will Saturday and hope any visitors have gone if they were there. I thought the snake may be a moccasin, there is a small pond right off our property.
Mike, thanks for the information. The room is no where air tight, it has some are space at the top and one side is not all the way to the ground, most likely where the snake got in. I was going to get that closed just never got to it, but will now. In the past I have keep bald cypress outside too, this one was given to me by a friend that had grown it from a stick and he put it in a green house in winter so I have tired to follow how he was doing it for the past 15 years. The room is really the same temp as the outside. The light is 60 watt bulb, so it does not give much heat. but saying all that I am not disagreeing with your thinking. Water does run in through the rocks when we have a hard rain, so it may be too humid. the water coming in will stop once I get the side closed up, about 6 inch open at the bottom.
One of the reasons for moving them inside was the deer eating what leaves have not come off as winter starts.
I will think about this for the coming winter
Thanks

Yea, we’ll deer can be worse! Yea I mean, I dunno. Just throwing around ideas. Hope the tree recovers.

 

[markyscott]

Black bark on Japanese maple is not good. In fact it’s really bad and indicates the cambium is definitely dead. Could be verticillium wilt or it could be the Steganosporium ovatum fungus, I don’t know. Looks like you might have some branch canker (Nectria cinnabarina) going on too. I‘d guess root rot as well because it commonly accompanies these fungi.

If it were me, I’d cut below anything black on the trunk. I’d look at the cut end of the shoot or trunk and examine it for a dark discoloration in the heartwood. If I saw it, I’d cut lower. Then I‘d burn the prunings and disinfect my tools. Then I’d repot into a better draining mixture, spray it down with lime sulfur at dormant concentrations and disinfect all my tools. I’d also separate it from my other trees when I put it back on the bench.

You might consider spraying down with lime sulfur before putting them into storage as well. I don’t think you need to protect them in Alabama though - I’d just leave them outside. Maybe it would cut down on fungal growth over the winter.

S

 

[Aeast]

Looks like coronavirus to me, classic signs.

 

[sorce]

Reckon that snake was heating itself on the lamp.

Snakes don't just eat rats.

They eat snakes.

Hopefully that one wasn't about to eat the one that bites you this summer.

It would serve you well to get a field guide.

For you're trying to dispatch a ratsnake one day and get bit from behind, by that moccasin.

Sorce

 

[ml_work]

If it were me, I’d cut below anything black on the trunk. I’d look at the cut end of the shoot or trunk and examine it for a dark discoloration in the heartwood. If I saw it, I’d cut lower. Then I‘d burn the prunings and disinfect my tools. Then I’d repot into a better draining mixture, spray it down with lime sulfur at dormant concentrations and disinfect all my tools. I’d also separate it from my other trees when I put it back on the bench.

Thanks Scott,
One of the tree is completely Dead, 2 of them that had the black, I cut the small branch off and that is all on the burn pile away from the trees. Today, I looked at the 2 and cut them back some more as it appeared to be dark at the top and where I cut to looked healthy but it was getting dark. I had not read this but will compare as you suggest. I don't have many tools, but will disinfect the one that I used .. rubbing alcohol ??? It may be time to repot them, and they don't have anything growing now with the top cut. Do not know about lime sulfur at dormant concentrations, is it the same lime sulfur used on junipers ?
The largest of these made it ok, it has some green leaves that never dropped .. I really don't think the room was that warm. It did have some of the white on the tips of the limbs and I got it all off with my hand. They are in nursery pots and would have been Ok in our winter, guess I will leave them out next year.
Maybe root rot too, I did water a couple of times this winter....
Had a Winged Elm in there in a bonsai pot and it seems OK.

 

[markyscott]

Thanks Scott,
One of the tree is completely Dead, 2 of them that had the black, I cut the small branch off and that is all on the burn pile away from the trees. Today, I looked at the 2 and cut them back some more as it appeared to be dark at the top and where I cut to looked healthy but it was getting dark. I had not read this but will compare as you suggest. I don't have many tools, but will disinfect the one that I used .. rubbing alcohol ??? It may be time to repot them, and they don't have anything growing now with the top cut. Do not know about lime sulfur at dormant concentrations, is it the same lime sulfur used on junipers ?
The largest of these made it ok, it has some green leaves that never dropped .. I really don't think the room was that warm. It did have some of the white on the tips of the limbs and I got it all off with my hand. They are in nursery pots and would have been Ok in our winter, guess I will leave them out next year.
Maybe root rot too, I did water a couple of times this winter....
Had a Winged Elm in there in a bonsai pot and it seems OK.

rubbing alcohol will be fine. Here’s a resource that you can use to learn about lime sulfur as a dormant spray. https://www.bonsainut.com/resources/dormant-season-spraying-part-2-lime-sulfur-and-bordeaux-mix.37/

 

[M. Frary]

Snakes don't eat trees.
They eat the things that do though.
Not deer but everything smaller.
Unless you live in Florida.
A Burmese python can eat deer.