vancehanna
Chumono
Had trimmed the longer needles (about 60mm down to 20mm) last fall and today some wire adjustments.
Winter unwired some old Al to Cu...
- Thread starter vancehanna
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Had trimmed the longer needles (about 60mm down to 20mm) last fall and today some wire adjustments.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Bark appears to have some age to it, but it doesn’t look particularly vigorous. Good horticultural practices and well-timed candle-cutting will eliminate your need to perform the egregious act of cutting needles.
clem
Chumono
Cutting pine needles is done by great masters in Japan (Urushibata etc) although they master every technics like mekiri, metsumi, bud selection, needles removing, watering, fertilisation etc.. so i'm sure it is a technic that can be usefull to balance strength on this kind of thunberg pines... the result isn't "pretty" so if it was 100% useless, great Japanese Masters wouldn't do it.. just a logic reflexion
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
It isn’t pretty, it isn’t clean horticultural practice, and it isn’t necessary if you work your pines correctly. I am taught by masters who studied in Japan as well, and I have never been directed to cut needles. Can you do it? Sure. But bonsai is a visual art, so I strive to do work that is visually attractive. You may see it differently and that’s fine, but I like my trees to look good as much of the time as possible.
This is my pine after winter work; pulling old and new needles, and a little light pruning. Still needs some wire on new shoots, but this was achieved without cutting needles.
Some Masters are better at JBP than others.
Vance, your trunk has a lot of movement, yet the branches are straight. It appears they were wired “down” over the years, but they don’t have any movement to them at all. They don’t need a LOT of movement, but some wiggles would help to make them look like they belong to this trunk.
clem
Chumono
your tree is very nice, it means that you don't need to do it on your tree, it isn't a shohin or a mame i guess..
but... again... if some pro in Japan do it, and not only Urushibata, it's because it is usefull
It's just a logic déduction. They have sooooo many trees to work on, if it was useless, they wouldn't do it.. In this forum, it is not allowed, but, in Japan, it is done .. it is just a fact and Urushibata isn't a poor level pro, he is a well known master with a lot of JBP. I think some people here should be a little more "open minded" on the possibility to cut the candles (or not) ^^I’m assuming that when you said “to cut the candles”, you meant “to cut the needles”.your tree is very nice, it means that you don't need to do it on your tree, it isn't a shohin or a mame i guess..
but... again... if some pro in Japan do it, and not only Urushibata, it's because it is usefull
It is common in Japan to cut the needles to sell a tree. To show it in the condition (profile) as it would appear in show worthy condition. They will take a fairly rough tree, wire it up, cut the needles, and sell for a quick profit.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
I didn’t say “useless”, I said it was unnecessary and not clean horticultural practice. You won’t be able to change my mind on that; I’ve done it long enough that I can control needle length without cutting them.your tree is very nice, it means that you don't need to do it on your tree, it isn't a shohin or a mame i guess..
but... again... if some pro in Japan do it, and not only Urushibata, it's because it is usefull
I suggest people here learn and do things the right way instead of reciting somebody else’s shortcuts. But, since you’re so attached to the idea of cutting needles, how about you start a thread demonstrating the merits and your results over time. Use your trees, photos and all. We can all watch and chime in. Go.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Useless is ok, BVF. doing this on something near show ready would be silly. Developing a specimen? Get just as much sun exposure from strategic needle removal. Like amongst the extra needles further back, some that point down, some that point up. Past that stage? Well, as stated, needle length is something that the grower has an amazing chance to actually control through simple horticulture practices.
That and it looks like something is wrong with the tree?
That and it looks like something is wrong with the tree?
clem
Chumono
yes, i meant cut needles !
It is used also to balance the vigor of the branches, in Urushibata's place. Look at this link; a student of Urushibata explains it with pics ^^
La taille des aiguilles des pins noirs et rouges
Les techniques exposées dans cet article sont celles utilisées au Japon, dans des conditions climatiques très spécifiques. Les étés sont chauds et humides. Ainsi, les plantes connaissent un déve…
bonsaiaujapon.wordpress.com
btw, Urushibata's son, taiga, won the 1rst prize of the latest Sakufu-ten with a big pine, so i guess they have good skills in this famous nursery
clem
Chumono
I'm not Urushibata, and you aren't Urushibata neither lol.. but you are a quite good skilled amateur ! I just find strange, on this forum, that people like you consider cutting needles as unnecessary when i show pics/links above, that show famous Masters (not amateurs like you and I) doing it. I Don't say that you should do it (Who am I to say that to you ? ^^) i just say that it is done in Japan.. So it can be done ! And with shohin, with mame, it is necessary to be done, as Urushibata does it ^^ That's all...
I'm not saying it is the most important thing to do on a pine, to be clear ... but if some great Masters in Japan, do it, it is not for the pleasure : they dont have time to lose doing an "unecessary" practise !
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Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
I’ve already demonstrated it is unnecessary...like this discussion. I’ll look forward to your thread showing your cut-needle pines.
Au revoir.
clem
Chumono
sorry but you did not convinced me ! a lot of Pro in Japan do it ! with or without your agreement ^^
bye bye !
ps : would love to see you explain Urushibata that what he is doing is unnecessary
bye bye !
ps : would love to see you explain Urushibata that what he is doing is unnecessary
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Let me use the deduction:sorry but you did not convinced me ! a lot of Pro in Japan do it ! with or without your agreement ^^
bye bye !
ps : would love to see you explain Urushibata that what he is doing is unnecessary
If Urushibata has a lot of pines, then pulling individual needles would take months. Using a scissor is faster.
That doesn't mean it's the best technique, it's the fastest and the cheapest.
If you see cut needles at a show, then I'd say you might be right. But I've never seen those cut needles in a show.
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