wire first, prune second? or vise versa?

[benw3790]

So I thought this was a good question, some of you may not think so, but I'm sure a lot of beginners have this in their heads, even after watching videos. And this mostly retains to conifers, let me add. Do you wire up the branches you KNOW youre going to keep and then cut back foliage to form your "pads" or do you go through the whole tree removing everything you know you don't want or need, plus prune back the foliage to the right length before wiring? I know people are going to say to take out the stuff you know you're not going to use first so you have room to apply the wire. But I feel like I wouldn't necessarily know if I needed something or not until I started wiring. I might've could a used it to fill in a spot left over from wiring. What are your thoughts an input on this? Usually I'll go through and get rid of all the things I know I don't need, like, crossing branches, ones growing straight up or down, all the dead stuff etc.. Before I wire, and then I'll go back after wiring and shorten things up of I need to. My point tho is that sometimes you'll have all the branches that don't look like anything and ppl bend them so properly it perfectly forms pads, its like magic! I don't understand how they see it!

 

[pwk5017]

I dont think its a bad question. I would always suggest wiring everything first if you are unsure. You mentioned some easy removal decisions already, which is good. However, if you are relatively new to styling trees, then I would suggest initially wiring the tree. I think after you get into the structure and are intimately wiring each branch, you subconsciously get a better feel for the tree. It also allows you to work through different design iterations, "if I remove this branch, and fill in with this branch, what does it look like?", or "is it even possible to move this branch that much?". I think wiring first is an effective step along the design process compared to removing branches willy nilly because you "think" they are useless. Personally, I wire everything first when dealing with collected material. You are given so few choices most of the time with collected ponderosas, that I am typically hell bent on exploring every last option before removing foliage. Patience and meaningful thought can be your best friends when styling trees, and I find wiring provides you with more of both.

 

[Vance Wood]

Sorry to be vague and in the fear of the Noob Police that will accuse me of being mean this question can only be answered by the two word reply: It depends. It depends on the tree, the time of year, how old the tree is, the species, how well you can wire, how well you think you can wire, can you wire at all. Do you have any idea what raffia is used for and why, what kind of wire what weight of wire, and most important of all do you have an idea in your head what you want the tree to look like.

 

[bonsaibp]

Most often it's better to prune first, it makes it much easier to wire. At least clean up the crotches, down growing stuff etc..

 

[benw3790]

I dont think its a bad question. I would always suggest wiring everything first if you are unsure. You mentioned some easy removal decisions already, which is good. However, if you are relatively new to styling trees, then I would suggest initially wiring the tree. I think after you get into the structure and are intimately wiring each branch, you subconsciously get a better feel for the tree. It also allows you to work through different design iterations, "if I remove this branch, and fill in with this branch, what does it look like?", or "is it even possible to move this branch that much?". I think wiring first is an effective step along the design process compared to removing branches willy nilly because you "think" they are useless. Personally, I wire everything first when dealing with collected material. You are given so few choices most of the time with collected ponderosas, that I am typically hell bent on exploring every last option before removing foliage. Patience and meaningful thought can be your best friends when styling trees, and I find wiring provides you with more of both.

I totally agree about collected material.. And sometimes I do some wiring before pruning because you just never know, or can't figure it out. Or you wire it up and see how far you can move things and then take out what you know you can replace, because you've already established how far it'll move. But you watch really experienced professionals just go through demo trees and other materials removing this and that, which I'm sure is second nature to them. And then at the end, its like they always have exactly what they need to wire up the tree perfectly. I wonder how they picture it in their heads so fast? I guess its experience, and like Vance said, it depends. I would also like to note that everything is not always done right in demos for timing purposes and styling purposes. But hopefully you get what I mean. Just thought it was something to discuss.