Wire form Stone Lantern

[mat]

I'm hoping that someone can give me some input regarding the difference between the "Bonsai Aesthetics" wire and the "Koyo" wire for sale at Stone Lantern.

http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Tree_Wire_lowest_prices_anywhere_s/64.htm

Both are anodized aluminum. I can see from the descriptions that one is from Japan, and that one is more expensive. Is it better? Why? Worth some extra money?

I have some room left on my Xmas gift certificate, only need a couple of sizes, and could certainly afford the Koyo if I had a decent reason to.

Does anyone have experience with either or both types? thanks.

 

[stacy allen muse]

currious question... what do you plan on wiring ??? By this I mean what type of plant ???

Just wondering, because seeing that you also live in florida and because we have such a long growing season and our plants here have a tendency to grow very fast...

My wire often doesn't stay on a full season, before it has to be removed because it starts to bite into the tree...
So, for the most part I personally would not spend the extra $$$ unless I was using it on a tree where the growth was very slow...

something to consider ???

 

[Ang3lfir3]

My wire often doesn't stay on a full season, before it has to be removed because it starts to bite into the tree...
So, for the most part I personally would not spend the extra $$$ unless I was using it on a tree where the growth was very slow...

you don't unwind and reuse alum wire?? (we need to have an intervention )

@mat I use whatever wire I happen to have... I buy it when I need it from where ever i can get a good price... the key is it needs to perform its function.... doesn't matter what language the label is written in ....

 

[Kevster]

If it makes you feel any better I normally buy mine from amazon when I see a good deal and I am running low. I think it even comes from Dallas Bonsai. Last I got was an aluminum 250 gram roll of 2mm for $15

 

[johng]

I have used the bonsai aesthetic wire and it is adequate...not great but ok. It is not quite as easy to use(its a little stiffer) than the aluminum that comes from Japan and some sizes tend to lose the black coating with a couple weeks of sun exposure. All that said, the significantly reduced price convinced me to buy a kilo of each size...which brings the price down to just under $15/kilo! The packaging is just shrink wrapped plastic so you may want to find a way to label the mm size of each kilo once you unpackage....not totally necessary but it saves these old eyes time when I am working on a tree and trying to find the correct size wire.

 

[mat]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to go with a couple big rolls of the cheap stuff. I might also spend $4 on a small roll of the nicer stuff just to see for myself.

I've been getting my wire from Amazon also, and it seems to do the trick. As I said, I just have a Stone Lantern gift certificate now and figured I'd try their stuff.

Stacy, I put a little wire on a lot of different things. various Ficus, a few Chinese Elms, Schefflera, Ilex, Serissa, etc. I'm currently in the phase where I have tons of plants and a few trees with potential. I've been wiring for a couple years, and you're right - nothing stays on for long, definitely not a full year.

 

[crust]

you don't unwind and reuse alum wire?? (we need to have an intervention ) I now unwind and reuse (reanneal too) most of my copper wires--I have no aluminum. One good point for everyone to consider is to save any pinched off wires in a can and bring them in for recyling. Not only is clean copper high in value it is a non-renewable resource that does not belong in the dump. I would assume the same can be done with the ugly fat aluminum wires.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to go with a couple big rolls of the cheap stuff.

Maybe I am missing something, but annealed aluminum wire is annealed aluminum wire I buy mine in the kilo rolls - and anything under $20 per kilo is a decent price. When I look at their prices (especially with the qty discounts) their prices are very good.

 

[Bill S]

Could come down to the color, some look like copper, others are black how long that stays black????

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Could come down to the color, some look like copper, others are black how long that stays black????

I don't (can't) reuse my wire, so it stays black/copper/brown for a lot longer than I need it to I'm not sure how you guys can unwind wire from a ramified pine (for a example) without taking off buds, but my hats off to you! I can't unwind wire without damaging my trees.

 

[Bill S]

I have done and seen it the other way too, damage from cutting off wire. Ever see someone use 2 pair of wiring pliars at the same time? Same motion only backwards, if it can go on it can come off, although the wire(copper anyway) is stiffer to unwind.

 

[rockm]

I have unwound wire and reused it, but I don't anymore, not since I did some pretty severe damage to a rammed out elm. Those twisty wires get tangled up in tertiary branches and will snap them off pretty easily on some hardwood species if you don't watch yourself VERY carefully.

Unwinding wire can also strip or badly damage cambium on trunks and primary branches of some thinner skinned trees--japanese maples and beech in particular.

And FWIW, copper wire isn't resuable on trees. It "sets" molecularly when it's applied the first time (which is why is a lot more effective than aluminum) Unwinding it significantly weakens it and it's holding power on the second application (provided you can get it unwound enough to use effectively) is greatly reduced.

 

[Bill S]

Question rockm, can the copper be reannealed? I realize that after using it it sets, and will be affected more by removal, but never thought of wether or not it can be realigned. Mostly al. as far as unwinding, and even then without really pulling it to straighten it, it becomes seconds for me( guy wires, screen staples, etc.)

 

[crust]

Question rockm, can the copper be reannealed? I realize that after using it it sets, and will be affected more by removal, but never thought of wether or not it can be realigned. Mostly al. as far as unwinding, and even then without really pulling it to straighten it, it becomes seconds for me( guy wires, screen staples, etc.)

Reannealing works fine as does the reuseing the wires. I usually don't unwind big copper wire but I do smaller wires (16 and under) if I can. I reannealed wires just today and I never have weakness problems.

 

[crust]

And FWIW, copper wire isn't resuable on trees. It "sets" molecularly when it's applied the first time (which is why is a lot more effective than aluminum) Unwinding it significantly weakens it and it's holding power on the second application (provided you can get it unwound enough to use effectively) is greatly reduced.[/QUOTE] I straighten and re-anneal and notice no problem and I know others that do too. Usually I straighten it out and save the wire in straight form and store it in narrow cans semi sorted.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

I don't (can't) reuse my wire, so it stays black/copper/brown for a lot longer than I need it to I'm not sure how you guys can unwind wire from a ramified pine (for a example) without taking off buds, but my hats off to you! I can't unwind wire without damaging my trees.

#1 we use alum.... copper is expensive and for the most part unnecessary (that's a personal choice)... alum is easily unwound and as many professionals will tell you unwinding it guarantees you won't leave bits behind... plus it improves your wiring skill.... it can easily be straightened and used again.... it just takes practice and lots of it...

 

[stacy allen muse]

Not trying to be mean here...

But trying to save money on reusing wire compared to the perhaps irreversible damage that could be done your tree seems a little counter productive ???

Cut the shit off and throw it in a bucket and recycle it...

Learned this a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, when I accidently snaped off a branch trying to pull the wire off.
Didn't really save much, took me a couple of years to try and replace it...

If my time is money ??? Then wire is very cheap !!!

 

[mat]

Cut the shit off and throw it in a bucket and recycle it...
...
If my time is money ??? Then wire is very cheap !!!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Jason]

Not trying to be mean here...

But trying to save money on reusing wire compared to the perhaps irreversible damage that could be done your tree seems a little counter productive ???

Cut the shit off and throw it in a bucket and recycle it...

Learned this a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, when I accidently snaped off a branch trying to pull the wire off.
Didn't really save much, took me a couple of years to try and replace it...

If my time is money ??? Then wire is very cheap !!!

I don't think this is rocket science. If the tree is valuable and highly ramified, cut it. If the tree is less ramified and/or your up for some risk, unwind it.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

Not trying to be mean here...

But trying to save money on reusing wire compared to the perhaps irreversible damage that could be done your tree seems a little counter productive ???

Cut the shit off and throw it in a bucket and recycle it...

Learned this a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, when I accidently snaped off a branch trying to pull the wire off.
Didn't really save much, took me a couple of years to try and replace it...

If my time is money ??? Then wire is very cheap !!!

if you think its about being cheap you are on the wrong path ... its not about saving money or even time ... I can unwire a tree faster than I bet you can cut the wire off... unwiring is zen and I personally learn a lot from it every time I do it ... it's interesting how good you get at knowing just how long a piece of wire is required for many branch configurations once you start unwiring ... I learned almost everything I know about effective wiring from removing wire from Daniel's trees ... I never once was given a "how to apply wire" lesson other than the obligatory "wire goes everywhere except where you don't need it" ...

every inch of wire on the hornbeam in this thread will have the wire unwound from it... and not a single branch will be lost...

granted we don't try to do that with copper (which we just cut off when on a tree we acquire) except #16 or smaller .... only aluminum ....

the practice isn't for everyone... but I can tell you that you WILL get better at putting it on if learn to take it off ...

that being said... if you really love your wirecutters ... more power to ya