CasAH
Chumono
If snails eating your seedlings pour a line of salt around where you are keeping them. Salt will kill them.
Wires_Guy_Wires 6 year JBP thread
- Thread starter Wires_Guy_wires
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If snails eating your seedlings pour a line of salt around where you are keeping them. Salt will kill them.
Clicio
Masterpiece
theone420
Shohin
use copper tape around the pot that should stop the snails
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
The snails stayed at bay but another 38 cuttings did not make it.
That's 80 dead and counting.
It seems that they're either being eaten by nematodes or that the issue is microbiological.
So the logic step I made was to use the preservative nature of peat moss, and the bug killing properties of pyrethrin. Tackling three possible issues at once, if moisture content is allowed as a factor.
40 or so cuttings were struck yesterday, and placed in treated peat moss.
Another 20 seedlings were transferred to akadama, which seems to work for every pine I have. I get why people dislike the stuff, but I also get why people love it.
Something close to 15 seedlings were field planted as well. They're on their own now. Basing my judgement on red pines, 5 seedlings will survive that field in the end. It's harsh out there.
That's 80 dead and counting.
It seems that they're either being eaten by nematodes or that the issue is microbiological.
So the logic step I made was to use the preservative nature of peat moss, and the bug killing properties of pyrethrin. Tackling three possible issues at once, if moisture content is allowed as a factor.
40 or so cuttings were struck yesterday, and placed in treated peat moss.
Another 20 seedlings were transferred to akadama, which seems to work for every pine I have. I get why people dislike the stuff, but I also get why people love it.
Something close to 15 seedlings were field planted as well. They're on their own now. Basing my judgement on red pines, 5 seedlings will survive that field in the end. It's harsh out there.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Our local blend of Honduran/Caribbean pine is grown on gravel or rock
soils. When we were learning to grow from seed, the Forestry officers
were kind enough to take us into the fields,
They showed us how the pines grew and explained the why of gravel.
With our clays the pines grow for a while and slowly the clay kills
them off.
This is why we use the 5 mm, silica based gravel blend and aged compost.
It is what we saw when shown sample zones of 3 to 6 feet of soil depth.
Sand / rock and some little organic matter.
As the akadama returns to clay and pumice, we would anticipate problems.
Just sharing.
Good Day
Anthony
*Funny, isn't it the containers are all porous earthenware c;lay.
Works well in dry or wet climates, as the combination of gravel,
with fired clay, wicks away the water or the fired clay cools the
pot in very intense Caribbean sunlight.
And once again - compost hold 20 times it's weight in water.
So the pine mix is only around 1 or 2 parts organic.
Also as the compost spheres with age, it to goes inorganic,
but can still hold water and fertiliser within itself.
Usually shapes to the size of the gravel - 5 mm.
soils. When we were learning to grow from seed, the Forestry officers
were kind enough to take us into the fields,
They showed us how the pines grew and explained the why of gravel.
With our clays the pines grow for a while and slowly the clay kills
them off.
This is why we use the 5 mm, silica based gravel blend and aged compost.
It is what we saw when shown sample zones of 3 to 6 feet of soil depth.
Sand / rock and some little organic matter.
As the akadama returns to clay and pumice, we would anticipate problems.
Just sharing.
Good Day
Anthony
*Funny, isn't it the containers are all porous earthenware c;lay.
Works well in dry or wet climates, as the combination of gravel,
with fired clay, wicks away the water or the fired clay cools the
pot in very intense Caribbean sunlight.
And once again - compost hold 20 times it's weight in water.
So the pine mix is only around 1 or 2 parts organic.
Also as the compost spheres with age, it to goes inorganic,
but can still hold water and fertiliser within itself.
Usually shapes to the size of the gravel - 5 mm.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
The issue of the dying cuttings was found today: microscopic worms chewing their way up the stems.
Another pyrethrin treatment and a soak with neem oil should scare them a little. But having experience with those tiny buggers, the only viable option is to either dry everything out, or pour gasoline on the sphagnum and burn everything down. The neem oil and pyrethrin will most likely not help at all.
Gnat larvae would be easy to diagnose, and easier to combat. The worms I found are a fraction of their size, 0.5-1 mm at most in length. Almost invisible to the naked eye, and they're transparent as well.
That's why people use benches, away from the ground, away from where these buggers live. Lesson learned!
Another pyrethrin treatment and a soak with neem oil should scare them a little. But having experience with those tiny buggers, the only viable option is to either dry everything out, or pour gasoline on the sphagnum and burn everything down. The neem oil and pyrethrin will most likely not help at all.
Gnat larvae would be easy to diagnose, and easier to combat. The worms I found are a fraction of their size, 0.5-1 mm at most in length. Almost invisible to the naked eye, and they're transparent as well.
That's why people use benches, away from the ground, away from where these buggers live. Lesson learned!
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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For what it's worth, your soil- at least in the first two trays- looks extremely moisture retentive which will inhibit root growth.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
It looked to retentive to me too, but it dries out in 3-4 days depending on weather. Which is the best I can manage. There's a bottom layer of coarse gravel and some 20 holes at the bottom of each tray.
Root growth is inhibited mainly by no roots being present, and the stems being eaten away in 4 days before callus formation even started. If there's no place to form roots, they wil not form. When left alone, what's left after 5 days (or 1 watering cycle) are 7 needles per cutting. The rest is just gone: eaten. Leave a cutting in water and it would probably live past that time.
For my red pines in the past and scots pines right now the first tray is still doing it's job. Somehow the worms seem to leave them alone.
I did some research on rooting behavior in the past. Because I wanted to root something that's just unrootable, unlayerable and couldn't be cultured in vitro.. Nor in vivo by the way, that plant was a "seed only" type of plant I had never experience before. Thanks Monsatan for making plants unsusceptible for auxins with your agent orange. Good job!
In established plants, dry moments cause vigorous root growth. In cuttings however, it doesn't exactly work in the same way.
Literature uses media compositions of around 96 or 97% or even 98% water for rooting media. And judging from a few years of experience in tissue culture, water content of a medium doesn't affect rooting a lot. We're talking about 2-5% differences in water content at most for very difficult rooting species, and an increase in rootability averaging around 2%, 15% in extreme cases.
In order of 'amount of effect' and importance:
1. Stress response (bleeding, tissue death)
2. Genetics (easy-rooting or not)
3. Cut site and size (below/above node, size of cutting)
4. Present foliage & season (some do better with, some without)
5. Age (younger tissue performs better)
6. Hormonal activity / bioactivity (auxins, cytokinins, abscissic acid)
7. Carbohydrate availability (too much = no roots, too little = no roots)
8. Nitrogen availability (too much = no roots)
9. pH
10. Water content (doesn't matter much, mostly affects disease susceptibility for waterbound infections, and vitrifcation)
Drying out and moving air does help prevent bacterial and fungal rot, that's a fact. I guess that would show by drooping needles, and the cuttings dying as a whole but equally. But it seems that isn't the issue here; the needles stay intact and some don't even look affected.. but at the mean time the stem is long gone.
Good observation though. It were those trays I did expect to stay too wet as well.
Root growth is inhibited mainly by no roots being present, and the stems being eaten away in 4 days before callus formation even started. If there's no place to form roots, they wil not form. When left alone, what's left after 5 days (or 1 watering cycle) are 7 needles per cutting. The rest is just gone: eaten. Leave a cutting in water and it would probably live past that time.
For my red pines in the past and scots pines right now the first tray is still doing it's job. Somehow the worms seem to leave them alone.
I did some research on rooting behavior in the past. Because I wanted to root something that's just unrootable, unlayerable and couldn't be cultured in vitro.. Nor in vivo by the way, that plant was a "seed only" type of plant I had never experience before. Thanks Monsatan for making plants unsusceptible for auxins with your agent orange. Good job!
In established plants, dry moments cause vigorous root growth. In cuttings however, it doesn't exactly work in the same way.
Literature uses media compositions of around 96 or 97% or even 98% water for rooting media. And judging from a few years of experience in tissue culture, water content of a medium doesn't affect rooting a lot. We're talking about 2-5% differences in water content at most for very difficult rooting species, and an increase in rootability averaging around 2%, 15% in extreme cases.
In order of 'amount of effect' and importance:
1. Stress response (bleeding, tissue death)
2. Genetics (easy-rooting or not)
3. Cut site and size (below/above node, size of cutting)
4. Present foliage & season (some do better with, some without)
5. Age (younger tissue performs better)
6. Hormonal activity / bioactivity (auxins, cytokinins, abscissic acid)
7. Carbohydrate availability (too much = no roots, too little = no roots)
8. Nitrogen availability (too much = no roots)
9. pH
10. Water content (doesn't matter much, mostly affects disease susceptibility for waterbound infections, and vitrifcation)
Drying out and moving air does help prevent bacterial and fungal rot, that's a fact. I guess that would show by drooping needles, and the cuttings dying as a whole but equally. But it seems that isn't the issue here; the needles stay intact and some don't even look affected.. but at the mean time the stem is long gone.
Good observation though. It were those trays I did expect to stay too wet as well.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Alright, after the bugs having the munchies, only the scots pines survived the cut. And even those were limited to just 10 out of 30.
From the wonderful world of plants, I have learned that if you bury plants up until their neck, they have a high chance of rooting just below the surface. This happened in my most shallow pot after a year.
So that's what I'm trying with the ones above. I made another 20 or so cuts, and another tray with 20 or so buried plants. We'll see where this ends up.
From the wonderful world of plants, I have learned that if you bury plants up until their neck, they have a high chance of rooting just below the surface. This happened in my most shallow pot after a year.
So that's what I'm trying with the ones above. I made another 20 or so cuts, and another tray with 20 or so buried plants. We'll see where this ends up.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Branching at the second set of needles.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Nobody responded to my question about fusing trunks in the rule-book.
So I started fusing trunks. First, with some leftover root systems from the cuttings I took. Those all failed. But the stems and roots were still alive. Why not use them?
Slits were made, and root systems were attached as if they were grafts. Too bad the parafilm was a bit strong. I crushed some roots. Well, it's an experiment anyways.
Now for the fun stuff:
Five in one. Can it be done? I don't know. We'll see.
I did two of them, with different techniques and height differences.
Now it's another waiting game.
So I started fusing trunks. First, with some leftover root systems from the cuttings I took. Those all failed. But the stems and roots were still alive. Why not use them?
Slits were made, and root systems were attached as if they were grafts. Too bad the parafilm was a bit strong. I crushed some roots. Well, it's an experiment anyways.
Now for the fun stuff:
Five in one. Can it be done? I don't know. We'll see.
I did two of them, with different techniques and height differences.
Now it's another waiting game.
my nellie
Masterpiece
So curious for the results!
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Me too! They'll either die in a week or they'll pull through. Honestly I am counting on them not making it. It's a ridiculous plan. But if it works, it's a half an hour well spent.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Update on the trunk fusion: vertical slits along the trunk are deadly.
Too bad some more seedlings popped up, because now I felt the need to torture some more and redo it without the slits.
How many have been killed by now? I'm counting nearly 200. Another 150 or so are doing fine.
One entire batch of 150 or so seeds did not germinate, I suspect due to the hot weather. In the earlier batches stratification wasn't necessary. I'm hoping the change in weather activates them. Thankfully there's some actual rain. It means less time spent on watering.
Too bad some more seedlings popped up, because now I felt the need to torture some more and redo it without the slits.
How many have been killed by now? I'm counting nearly 200. Another 150 or so are doing fine.
One entire batch of 150 or so seeds did not germinate, I suspect due to the hot weather. In the earlier batches stratification wasn't necessary. I'm hoping the change in weather activates them. Thankfully there's some actual rain. It means less time spent on watering.
my nellie
Masterpiece
This made me smile.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Potting soil is bad.
Some cut the bottom, I did the top. Low branching.
Buds at the second needle set.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Wait, was it time for a repot?
I think not! But I did it anyway.
Check up: does burying JBP deeper cause smaller sized trunks? Maybe it does.
Some roots over tiles and some wire. Let's see if they make it.
I think not! But I did it anyway.
Check up: does burying JBP deeper cause smaller sized trunks? Maybe it does.
Some roots over tiles and some wire. Let's see if they make it.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
You may find that J.B.pines do nothing for 3 or 4 years.
Caribbean pine - also does the same.
So don't get upset if nothing happens.
Good Day
Anthony
Caribbean pine - also does the same.
So don't get upset if nothing happens.
Good Day
Anthony
Gustavo Martins
Omono
What do you mean by doing nothing Anthony?
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
I believe someone said - they have to settle - Gustavo.
All they will do is just grow out.
Around the 3rd or 4th year, they begin to show mature features,
Branching, and beginning to trunk thicken.
Until then, they just look like advanced seedlings.
Good Day
Anthony
All they will do is just grow out.
Around the 3rd or 4th year, they begin to show mature features,
Branching, and beginning to trunk thicken.
Until then, they just look like advanced seedlings.
Good Day
Anthony
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