Wisteria Training

[lieuz]

I've recently acquired a wisteria plant. I've done quite a bit of research and have friends who have wisteria who have turned them into bonsai. It's a pretty large plant, about 5 feet tall that I'd like to shorten to about 3 feet. I have been hearing some conflicting things about wisteria care and why I'm worried is the conflicting thing I'm told is the correct way to approach any bonsai. Granted I know the wisteria plant is out of the ordinary, I'm told to ignore the recommended repotting cycle of every year, neglect it and just neglect it some more because out of the year it's only nice 3 weeks or so. Even when it comes to the soil it's not entirely orthodox. A few friends of mine have told me that bonsai mix might not be great for this tree. It loves dense compacting soil and that feeding it is a fire I don't want to fuel. They've had instances where they made an awful comparison that this is a plant that takes Stockholm syndrome to a new level. I know I love this tree beyond any shadow of a doubt, I want to start on it now but know I should wait for the blooms to have come and go before any work can be done. Can anyone offer any insight to my concerns and possible designing tips for the style of this plant? I have a few ideas.

 

[lieuz]

I really like the trunk definition as it's a lot thicker than most of the wisteria that were on the premises.

 

[Poink88]

Looks like a nice material.

I'd say chop the tall branch as marked.

 

[dick benbow]

One of the things to be aware of with Wisteria, is that they bloom better when they come of age, if they are kept somewhat root bound. So as your considering a pot for it at some stage
keep that in mind and fight the urge to be repotting too often.

Do you know if it blooms purple or white?

I bought one from the club after a collection from someone who passed was donated. It's just now starting to swell it's buds. If I had my druthers I'd prefer it white but doubt if it blooms this year.

Up at the Weyerhaeuser collection where i volunteer a lot, I took all the blooms off a nicely old Wisteria because the curator felt it would take too much out of the bonsai to support that much color.

In my japanese garden I have an olde purple that exited it's wooden climbing frame and shot up a tall english laurel hedge. Massive, when it blooms it fills the garden with a sweet overwhelming fragrance.

Good luck with yours

 

[Cadillactaste]

They are amazing in bloom...and you have a great start there!

Here is a link on the topic...Paul has success with his bonsai blooming every year other than the year he repots. That said...I am going to attempt his regiment to some degree and see if I can have similar success.

Wisteria is notoriously hard to make bloom. I have found, in my limited experience with wisteria, that they perform best when treated the worst...they're into punishment. Bad/heavy sandy soil, no fert, no repotting, and drown the roots in a dish of water from July to August.


I don't agree with this at all. I have grown wisteria for 30 years and this is what I have discovered. See here for pictures of my wisteria

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthre...isteria-flower

Wisteria rely on reserves of nutrients stored in roots and trunk during autumn for spring flowering. Thus if you root prune in winter then you reduce the amount of energy available to push flowers, instead the plant pushes foliage to rebuild reserves.

To make them flower you have to pamper them, not ignore them. They require a good quality bonsai potting mix, they require feeding throughout autumn with high K and P fertilizer right up to the point of leaf drop. Flowers consume a large amount of K so you have to feed it in autumn for spring flowers and during flowering as buds start to swell. They do not need a lot of N in the fertilizer, which will cause aggressive growth. They do like a lot of water through summer as they have a high transpiration rate and are a little sensitive to summer heat. Do not repot in winter if you want flowers. They tolerate root compaction/binding very well, so don't freak out if you don't repot every year. Plan on a flowering schedule, say two years of flowers and repot on the third year.

The more foliage left on the tree during summer and autumn, the greater the stores off starch for spring flowering.

Prune previous shoots lightly in mid winter, leaving several buds on a stem. Let them grow after flowering and in summer prune hard, which invariably cause some flower buds to appear but won't harm the plant. If you want to hold back growth, cut pinnate leaves to only two lateral leaves. This reduces the energy in the branch but keeps bud's strong. Prune unruly vine growth late in summer.

Paul

For a full read...the attached comment came from this link...
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?14296-Wisteria-buds-swelling/page3

 

[Cadillactaste]

Looks like a nice material.

I'd say chop the tall branch as marked.

I'm not saying that is wrong...but...I would also like to point out that wisteria that cascades down is amazing...I think better angles of the tree and also seeing it in leaf before I chopped. When in foliage it takes on another look entirely. This is not a tree that is displayed when in bare branches. So seeing it with foliage would go along way before I would wish to chop something that later may show something more of potential.

 

[Dav4]

Where did you get this material? I ask because if it came from a typical landscape nursery, there is a chance it could be grafted, and that might complicate things. I can't tell from the photos one way or the other.

 

[lieuz]

I'm not saying that is wrong...but...I would also like to point out that wisteria that cascades down is amazing...I think better angles of the tree and also seeing it in leaf before I chopped. When in foliage it takes on another look entirely. This is not a tree that is displayed when in bare branches. So seeing it with foliage would go along way before I would wish to chop something that later may show something more of potential.

I absolutely see what you were saying in the marked picture. I honestly looked at the lengthy growth and just don't know where to start really. I can see myself working with where you've marked off based on my wants. Cutting it there is totally plausible for me. It being fairly wasteful to just cut the top off while not in season, I'd love to salvage the top so I can have a few potential trees from one large one.

That only means that my real test here is to have patience. I plan to let the wisteria bud and bloom first so I can have an idea of what it looks like, where it blooms and what not. I don't plan to repot this just yet because in order for me to see the blooms I'd want it to get a bit root bound as mentioned before. From there, I'd like to start a air layer right above what you've marked it. Pretty much this year I'd like to salvage as much as I can from this tree and hope to get a better idea once it starts to bloom.

I'll definitely submit more pictures from different angles for further clarification.

 

[GrimLore]

Where did you get this material? I ask because if it came from a typical landscape nursery, there is a chance it could be grafted, and that might complicate things. I can't tell from the photos one way or the other.

I have seen larger that were chopped to the ground many times before the owner moved, passed away, or just gave up. It makes for some pretty odd base but I look at it as "patina"

Grimmy

 

[lieuz]

One of the things to be aware of with Wisteria, is that they bloom better when they come of age, if they are kept somewhat root bound. So as your considering a pot for it at some stage
keep that in mind and fight the urge to be repotting too often.

Do you know if it blooms purple or white?

I bought one from the club after a collection from someone who passed was donated. It's just now starting to swell it's buds. If I had my druthers I'd prefer it white but doubt if it blooms this year.

Up at the Weyerhaeuser collection where i volunteer a lot, I took all the blooms off a nicely old Wisteria because the curator felt it would take too much out of the bonsai to support that much color.

In my japanese garden I have an olde purple that exited it's wooden climbing frame and shot up a tall english laurel hedge. Massive, when it blooms it fills the garden with a sweet overwhelming fragrance.

Good luck with yours

It's a Chinese Wisteria Prolific "Blue".

 

[lieuz]

Where did you get this material? I ask because if it came from a typical landscape nursery, there is a chance it could be grafted, and that might complicate things. I can't tell from the photos one way or the other.

I certainly did ask that question. I asked, is it grafted, was it grown from a seedling, or is this a cutting and he said "if you're looking for blooms, I can optimistically tell you all the tree's we've sold blooms within a year or two." Didn't answer my question but anything to sell their trees. I honestly can't tell and pretty sure if it was any of those, it'd be under everything in the soil. But, here is a closer look at the trunk.

 

[Dav4]

I suspect that the graft is where the trunk splits into multiple trunks, but not 100% sure. Anyway, graft unions can stand out like a sore thumb or slowly disappear over the years. I would still go ahead with working this piece and see what happens.

 

[GrimLore]

lieuz, your first information on ignoring it is correct. If you do use fertilizer use 0-10-10 noting No Nitrogen. That plant will amaze you and once established will be very difficult to kill. I cannot remember if it was Wisteria or Cork Screw Willows but it seems to me they both did very good from cuttings as well. All of mine are gone now but my Wife mentioned I should get more here at the new house.

Grimmy

 

[lieuz]

lieuz, your first information on ignoring it is correct. If you do use fertilizer use 0-10-10 noting No Nitrogen. That plant will amaze you and once established will be very difficult to kill. I cannot remember if it was Wisteria or Cork Screw Willows but it seems to me they both did very good from cuttings as well. All of mine are gone now but my Wife mentioned I should get more here at the new house.

Grimmy

Your last sentence did bring some feels to my heart as I imagined possibly losing any tree. But I agree, with your wife; you should get some more. I will definitely gather lots of cuttings from this tree.

My only question I'd ask is this, regardless if this tree is grafted or not, let's give it a certain number of years, say 20. If I were to take a soft cutting from said tree, I'd expect at least 5 years or so for this cutting to show any signs of bloom. Does each cutting increase the year it will take for the blooms to happen? For me, I can't help but imagine some sort of calculus derivative where the derivative of a number continues to get smaller and smaller and in this case taking longer and longer for blooms to happen. So wouldn't it be at one point just better to get hardwood cuttings which you'll have to wait for anyway?

 

[Poink88]

Some cuttings bloom almost instantly and inherit the age of the "parent" tree.

As an example, I took a cutting from my crabapple last year. The cutting bloomed this year.

 

[GrimLore]

Your last sentence did bring some feels to my heart as I imagined possibly losing any tree. But I agree, with your wife; you should get some more. I will definitely gather lots of cuttings from this tree.

My only question I'd ask is this, regardless if this tree is grafted or not, let's give it a certain number of years, say 20. If I were to take a soft cutting from said tree, I'd expect at least 5 years or so for this cutting to show any signs of bloom. Does each cutting increase the year it will take for the blooms to happen? For me, I can't help but imagine some sort of calculus derivative where the derivative of a number continues to get smaller and smaller and in this case taking longer and longer for blooms to happen. So wouldn't it be at one point just better to get hardwood cuttings which you'll have to wait for anyway?

As far as I know none of them died, I recently moved and thinned my collection a LOT. Anyways - Dario is correct from my experience. If a Wisteria is blooming the cuttings bloom FAST. Once again, do not "over care" for them they will be fine.

Grimmy

 

[lieuz]

As far as I know none of them died, I recently moved and thinned my collection a LOT. Anyways - Dario is correct from my experience. If a Wisteria is blooming the cuttings bloom FAST. Once again, do not "over care" for them they will be fine.

Grimmy

Oh ok, sorry to assume...

 

[GrimLore]

Oh ok, sorry to assume...

No reason to apologize, you do not know me and I was pretty vague. Either way you have a decent find there and a LOT of different ways to go as they are pretty darn cool to work with. Grow, Enjoy, and Plan!

Grimmy

 

[lieuz]

I wanted to try this before working on possibly air layering this into two trees. Any insight into this possible style?

My fear for this style is that it can get extremely top heavy and the skinny trunk can snap. If I go with this, I may have to give extra support at where the bend is.

 

[lieuz]

The more I look at this the more I just want to clip away at the longer dangly long branch.

Something like this. Insight?