Wisteria wiring and bending

Mark2020

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The addiction has definitely struck hard, and I've added a Wisteria to my miniature forest. The tree I ordered in wasn't quite what I was expecting, and I am wondering how much wiring and bending is possible to get it to the more informal upright shape that I'd like to develop it into. Right now its in a rough cascade type shape.

I've attached some photos. The trunks are still very pliable, and I've been able to bend it by hand to roughly where I want it to be. The first two photos show it as it is. In the first photo, the trunk goes up, to the right, and then away from the viewer. If you imagine a clock flat on the ground, the trunk part I want to bend as it is points at 12. I want to rotate it back around to the left, so it's pointing at 9.

In the third photo I've pulled it roughly to this position. (Photo is taken from the other side and flipped - sorry for the confusion that causes but it was the only clear photo I could get!)

Would it be possible to wire the tree and bend it into this position, and then get it to stay there?

If yes, how long should it be left wired, and what diameter of wire might be needed?

Thanks!
 

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Cadillactaste

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Study some wisteria...you still want a natural feel...that bend you are showing...if that is your intent is extreme. I know from experience...I added a guy wire to a second branch that was higher up. Bending it down. When I changed the direction I was taking with it. Removed the guy wire. It reverted back to the original place. So it's going to take many years to get that to stay in that position. Of wiring and rewiring...I chose to just stop fighting it and find one that was more natural and I could work with. Removing that branch was key to accomplishing that.
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Mark2020

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Thanks! I'm a little bit at a loss as to what to do with this guy. I've had two other thoughts on it. One is to keep the cascade style, but bring it back a little, with a cut at the red line in the first photo.

The other is to cut at one of the two lines, and try to encourage the circled branches into something approaching an informal upright.

I've looked at a lot of wisteria bonsai photos, and I definitely know what I'd like to have, but I'm pretty unsure of how to get this tree moving in those directions!
 

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Cadillactaste

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Here is the thing...you had intentions and purchased trees I'm assuming sight unseen. We always have to listen to what the tree wants to be. Any forced direction will always seem forced. Understanding definate front...and understanding angle changes and tilting when repot at the appropriate time can change trees visual appearance.

My best advice, don't rush a design. I've had trees on my bench three years until I finally got the Ah~ha moment. Cutting that bottom line ...steals the movement found in the trunk line. Just something to chew on. At least in 2D it does.
 

Shibui

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When you have 2 designs and cannot choose between it mans that both are equally good. Just toss a coin and go with whatever the coin says. Or you could dispense with the coin an just get on with it.
The key is that there's no right answer, just several possible solutions. both of yours will produce good bonsai.
 

WavyGaby

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Thanks! I'm a little bit at a loss as to what to do with this guy. I've had two other thoughts on it. One is to keep the cascade style, but bring it back a little, with a cut at the red line in the first photo.

The other is to cut at one of the two lines, and try to encourage the circled branches into something approaching an informal upright.

I've looked at a lot of wisteria bonsai photos, and I definitely know what I'd like to have, but I'm pretty unsure of how to get this tree moving in those directions!
Have you considered using the first branch as the new leader? It would add taper and should get you to the informal upright style. Good luck!
 

Mark2020

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Have you considered using the first branch as the new leader? It would add taper and should get you to the informal upright style. Good luck!
I hadn't, but now I have! Is there anything in particular I need to do to encourage that, other than not pruning it?

I'm pretty much a complete beginner at this hobby, so still haven't got a good concept of what's possible and what isn't, with regard to moving a tree into a specific form!
 

sorce

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I let nature be the coin. Eventually, a squirrel will chew off one side! Or a storm will break it.

One thing for sure. .....
A few years ago, Vance Wood talked about using proper screws and wires to attach guy wires.
🤔Hmmm. And screw is in the title!
I did it, I used a proper screw, and a proper thin wire, and I just took it off a couple days ago, it stayed.

The right things, really hid it well, and allowed it to be left on to do its job for the amount of time it took.

Thanks Vance!

Sorce
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Right now, your trunk leaves the soil perfectly vertical, which is a very boring, limiting design. Most informal uprights the trunk is at least 15 to 30 degrees off vertical. Before doing any pruning at all, I would repot, make corrections to your root system, shape the nebari, and change the angle of the trunk. This will radically change your design options.

Depending on your climate you could possibly repot this summer, or autumn or the ideal time, late winter, early spring. Don't try to style until after you get the repotting done. Just let it grow wild. Wisteria, remain flexible for many years.
 

Mark2020

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Right now, your trunk leaves the soil perfectly vertical, which is a very boring, limiting design. Most informal uprights the trunk is at least 15 to 30 degrees off vertical. Before doing any pruning at all, I would repot, make corrections to your root system, shape the nebari, and change the angle of the trunk. This will radically change your design options.

Depending on your climate you could possibly repot this summer, or autumn or the ideal time, late winter, early spring. Don't try to style until after you get the repotting done. Just let it grow wild. Wisteria, remain flexible for many years.

Thanks, Leo! With that in mind I can see more options right away!

I also worry that with the single side bias and heavy foliage it has now, it won't do well in the winds we get here from time to time. Already the medium 'summer' breeze at the moment has tipped it once when I didn't have it tucked behind a large pot!

I've attached some images of specimen level wisterias that I like, randomly found on the web. I'd be happy if I could take this tree in any of these directions (although I realise most are quite similar!) Again my issue at this point, and something I'm trying hard to educate myself on, is what is possible to achieve in terms of changing the tree's shape with wiring and pruning. Lots of how to instruction, but I'm finding it tricky to get a handle on what is actually possible!
 

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Leo in N E Illinois

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Wisteria back bud like crazy, this combined with nearly infinite flexible branches when less than 5 years old means possibilities are without limit. If you don't have branches where you want them, just repot to a larger pot, let grow wild one or two years, then cut back hard and buds will pop everywhere.

Horticulture, wisteria are thirsty, for peak summer, set in a pan of water a little less than half the depth of the pot. Keep wet.

Wind. Use bungee cords or other tie downs to keep the pot from sailing away. If pot is on the ground, bungee a concrete cinder block to the pot.
 

Cadillactaste

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I use bungee cords to strap my trees down to the bench. Especially the wisteria. I have thicker ones on it...two...Currently in the cold greenhouse because of horrible storms that went through. But...the storm has shifted...and we are out of the woods now. So...I am setting them back out...during breaks in the rain. I get that one secure...I will share it with you. It has no wiggle room to budge. It's secure even through a regular thunderstorm. It's the severe ones with dangerous winds and hail it's protected from. We had many toppled HUGE trees down around the surrounding area...I'm glad I had a place to protect mine.

EDIT: With as overgrown as it is...you won't see the image of the cords. So I looked up an image I took earlier this spring. Now that the heat of summer is on. That tray under it is reversed and it sits in water. Two thick straps...crossing at the pot rim to anchor it even more. That thing I can't even budge if I tried. On wooden benches I use eye hooks...or if the bench can permit it. I wrap around the bench as well for anchoring.
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Cadillactaste

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Wisteria back bud like crazy, this combined with nearly infinite flexible branches when less than 5 years old means possibilities are without limit. If you don't have branches where you want them, just repot to a larger pot, let grow wild one or two years, then cut back hard and buds will pop everywhere.

Horticulture, wisteria are thirsty, for peak summer, set in a pan of water a little less than half the depth of the pot. Keep wet.

Wind. Use bungee cords or other tie downs to keep the pot from sailing away. If pot is on the ground, bungee a concrete cinder block to the pot.
Didn't see your reply...Love bungee cords. I typically use thinner black ones. But this one has such a mass of canopy for the wisteria before July's cut back... I need something more for anchoring.
 

rockm

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to create drastic bends in a wisteria the Japanese split large branches LONGWISE with branch splitters, wrap the two splits sides together wrap with raffia, make the bend and wire it with heavy wire. Wisteria is very "bendy" when split longitudinally as opposed to wiring and bending a solid branch. The split alleviates some of the torsion and the danger of snapping. I've done it. It works.

I get wisteria on and off, They're a HUGE pain in the ass. I collect larger trunks from the woods. I can't believe they're sold in nurseries here...

I think the trunk you have is fine, just needs some reduction of the "extra" branching ...I don't think trying to monkey around with the root mass to get a more angular trunk is necessary. Wisteria roots mostly won'[t cooperate with that and even if you get them to, the trunk will still look like you just tilted it...

You can also split thicker branches to get more "ramification" into a design with wisteria.

You don't give a location, so rule of thumb, the more northerly you live in North America, the slower wisteria will be. If you're in Southern U.S. this is basically an invasive pest and will grow rampantly--which means you can prune the hell out of it and accelerate branch and trunk development.
 

Mark2020

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I'm in a 9a USDA zone, so I expect that mean it'll grow pretty aggressively here?

Right now I'm thinking of trying a cut at the line marked in the image, and wiring down the arrow marked branch to the line to create a future tier of flowers here. Then see if there's something I can make of the two small branches coming off the left of the main trunk.

The bottom left marked branch has 2 green shoots coming from a single node. If I clip them off, will that encourage more growth from this branch, or kill it off?

Thanks again to everyone who's replied, I really appreciate the help!
 

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WavyGaby

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I hadn't, but now I have! Is there anything in particular I need to do to encourage that, other than not pruning it?

I'm pretty much a complete beginner at this hobby, so still haven't got a good concept of what's possible and what isn't, with regard to moving a tree into a specific form!
I'm a relative newbie but I've heard to let the leader grow unchecked while you trim the lower growth. I dont have any experience growing wisteria but I see it around and it really grows fast and takes over.
Your plan seems like a good one. Keep on experimenting.
 

Shibui

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The bottom left marked branch has 2 green shoots coming from a single node. If I clip them off, will that encourage more growth from this branch, or kill it off?
Not sure I understand the Q properly.
If I read correctly your branch has a couple of (unwanted?) shoots but is growing well otherwise. Cutting off those smaller shoots should not affect the rest of the branch. I would consider keeping at least one of those low shoots though. Inner shoots are precious. They can be used to replace the main branch when/if it gets too long and leggy.

I found that wisteria is very apical dominant. If I prune a lower branch to get budding on BARE wood while there are healthy branches above then that lower bare branch just dies. If I prune the whole tree heavily I can get back buds all over, including on lower branches. That only applies to back buds on bare branches. If there are already shoots growing you can prune the long branches and grow out the shorter shoots.
 
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