Wood pots, Are they only valid for prebonsai? Your opinion

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,337
Reaction score
23,254
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
@thomas22 - that is a very nice pot. At least in the photo the texture is not obviously wood.

If you could make a wooden pot look like stone, or ceramic, you might really have something. Judging bonsai at shows is all about how the display appears at the time of the show. If the pot looks good at the time shown, it technically should not matter how it will look years later in the future.

Ceramic, or stone does symbolically represent the earth. Not a big deal in bonsai, more important is the shape, & color providing a frame, or base, both separating the tree from the table, shelf or stand, and providing the stage, the "ground" for the image of the tree. The pot is an integral part of the set and setting for the bonsai. The pot helps set sense of place and sense of perspective.

A wooden pot could do this just as well as ceramic, except, the minute the observer realizes it is wood, there is the possibility that @rockm 's point that wood is temporary will come to mind, disrupting the image one is trying to create. Then the wood pot would detract from the display if it drew attention from the trees(s). Ceramic, being fired clay - hence earth, is usually viewed as more permanent, and as representing the earth or ground. Or at least the idea of ceramic won't interfere with conceptualizing the image one is trying to make with the bonsai. So I agree with Rock M's point. the fact that wood always decays detracts from its use as a material for making exhibition pots.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
@thomas22 - that is a very nice pot. At least in the photo the texture is not obviously wood.

If you could make a wooden pot look like stone, or ceramic, you might really have something. Judging bonsai at shows is all about how the display appears at the time of the show. If the pot looks good at the time shown, it technically should not matter how it will look years later in the future.

Ceramic, or stone does symbolically represent the earth. Not a big deal in bonsai, more important is the shape, & color providing a frame, or base, both separating the tree from the table, shelf or stand, and providing the stage, the "ground" for the image of the tree. The pot is an integral part of the set and setting for the bonsai. The pot helps set sense of place and sense of perspective.

A wooden pot could do this just as well as ceramic, except, the minute the observer realizes it is wood, there is the possibility that @rockm 's point that wood is temporary will come to mind, disrupting the image one is trying to create. Then the wood pot would detract from the display if it drew attention from the trees(s). Ceramic, being fired clay - hence earth, is usually viewed as more permanent, and as representing the earth or ground. Or at least the idea of ceramic won't interfere with conceptualizing the image one is trying to make with the bonsai. So I agree with Rock M's point. the fact that wood always decays detracts from its use as a material for making exhibition pots.
Leo hits another point--the wooded pots --most every one of them pictured in this thread--are not inconspicuous. Many say (or in some cases--scream) "look at me. I'm special because I'm made out of wood." In other words, the carpenter's skill outshines the bonsaiists. That same sin is committed by ceramic potters too. It's a function of experience with bonsai--the more a potter gets to understand the function and form aspects of bonsai potting, the better and more useable their pots become. Wooden pots have an extra obstacle to overcome--they have to de-emphasize their material, since it is unnusual.

Look this is pretty detailed and mostly useless, unless you are planning on exhibiting the tree. Wooden pots are fine, cheap and durable for the most part. Comparing them to medium to high quality ceramic bonsai pots is apples to oranges, though.
 

Potawatomi13

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,168
Reaction score
4,403
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
Indeed some beautiful work and containers here😌. One however though; Clay/ceramic has added weight to anchor tree against tipping/blowing over normally. Thus negates most need to tie down container.
 
Last edited:

Potawatomi13

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,168
Reaction score
4,403
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
A pot does not need validation. It could be made of cow dung but if it serves its purpose, its still a pot.
Of course I understand what you mean, but unless you are exhibiting with guidelines, the pot is up to you. There are some beautiful wood pots and some hideous ceramic pots. Once you cross the threshold of what defines a pot, it is in the I of the eye of the beholder.
Is pot abbreviation for pottery:confused:?
 

penumbra

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,380
Reaction score
15,847
Location
Front Royal, VA
USDA Zone
6
Is pot abbreviation for pottery:confused:?
A pot can be made of a variety of materials, wood, glass, metal, ceramic etc, that is usually defined as a vessel to cook or store food in. Obviously the actual definition of a pot outstrips this narrow meaning.
I would imagine that the word pottery evolved from the word pot to describe a vessel made of clay, also used to prepare or store food.
 

Cruiser

Chumono
Messages
637
Reaction score
1,343
Location
Thurston County Washington
USDA Zone
8a
A pot can be made of a variety of materials, wood, glass, metal, ceramic etc, that is usually defined as a vessel to cook or store food in. Obviously the actual definition of a pot outstrips this narrow meaning.
I would imagine that the word pottery evolved from the word pot to describe a vessel made of clay, also used to prepare or store food.
A glass bonsai pot would be interesting. Do they exist?

For some reason a Pyrex baking dish is coming to mind. With proper drainage you could make bonsai casserole.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,337
Reaction score
23,254
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
I vaguely recall a member here at one time making steel pots, and someone else was a glass artist making glass pots.

Both had issues with going with non-traditional shapes, and as a result, their pots did not get much acceptance. It is hard to use pots that draw too much attention to the pots over the tree.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
A glass bonsai pot would be interesting. Do they exist?

For some reason a Pyrex baking dish is coming to mind. With proper drainage you could make bonsai casserole.
Glass pots do exist--people drill out casserole dishes, etc. but they don't work very well as they tend to be too "slick" on the inside for a tree. Stoneware pots have rougher surfaces than glass/pyrex. That roughness or "tooth" of the clay used enables roots to grip the interior surfaces and anchor the tree. With a glass pot, trees can slip/slide back and forth when moved...
 

ShadyStump

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,886
Reaction score
9,733
Location
Southern Colorado, USA
USDA Zone
6a
I'm on very limited means right now, so I've considered heavily wooden dishes from the thrift store or whatnot as pots, and even the idea of wicker baskets for growing out, but I'm always stopped by the same issue: rot and warping.
Wood pots just won't last.

However, as an artistic medium, I feel there's no holds barred. You will inevitably find yourself going through allot of pots if you use wood, but whatever floats your boat as they say.
The grand variety of ceramic pots we see here should be enough to prove that the pot is always secondary, and thus should be complimentary, to the tree.

As far as exhibition goes, I understand the sheer inertia of tradition, and the part it plays. Yet there's allot of talk in the forum amongst the Americans of "finding that uniquely American bonsai style." (That sort of obsession is itself uniquely American: an adolescent culture trying to differentiate itself from the world around it.)
I feel like homemade wooden, or even recycled materials, pots is a fitting inclusion in that regard.

I also can't imagine that even in East Asia that wooden pits have not been used from time to time. The experience of the individual situation always plays a part, and often produces fascinating results.

Edit: I used the term American here, I did in deed have have the US in my own head while saying it.
However, I feel that much of North America is of a similar situation as far as self-identifying their relatively young cultures, and hope that's how it's taken here.
 
Last edited:

BrianBay9

Masterpiece
Messages
2,753
Reaction score
5,376
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
I've used both glass and wooden pots for brief periods of time to create a unique look for a display. I don't leave trees in them due to the problems already mentioned.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
What you guys think about marble pots? There are some old chinese marble pots really beautiful, these ones look nice I think Nigel bought one of those xD https://www.ebuy7.com/item/544909070760

View attachment 415707
View attachment 415708

Technically, those aren't pots. They're suibans--they don't have drainage holes. They CAN be good for bonsai, IF you get holes in them...They're also EXTREMELY heavy and pretty pricey (some are more expensive than top quality ceramic pots in many cases).

These are traditionally used for penjing, not bonsai.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Yes Nigel said its going to make the drain holes and use it as bonsai pot

View attachment 415711
View attachment 415712
FWIW, I have friends who have had a large granite bonsai pot from southern China for twenty years or more. It's carved on its surfaces. It's nice. but weighs 100 lbs on its own. Add a tree and soil, it's well over 150 lbs.

Weight is a concern for stone bonsai pots, as is overwintering. Rocks are unequal in their ability to withstand freezing and thawing without chipping, spalling or even splitting over the winter. All depends on how much water can penetrate the surface. Some marble is more water resistant than others. You can seal it, but the sealant is not likely going to A) last outside B) be completely "root friendly" to the trees in it....

I would NOT overwinter a tree in a stone container.
 

BrianBay9

Masterpiece
Messages
2,753
Reaction score
5,376
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
FWIW, I have friends who have had a large granite bonsai pot from southern China for twenty years or more. It's carved on its surfaces. It's nice. but weighs 100 lbs on its own. Add a tree and soil, it's well over 150 lbs.

Weight is a concern for stone bonsai pots, as is overwintering. Rocks are unequal in their ability to withstand freezing and thawing without chipping, spalling or even splitting over the winter. All depends on how much water can penetrate the surface. Some marble is more water resistant than others. You can seal it, but the sealant is not likely going to A) last outside B) be completely "root friendly" to the trees in it....

I would NOT overwinter a tree in a stone container.

I have carved planting pockets into sandstone and granite - drilled drain holes. They looked great! No problem overwintering. But they were a bear to move, repot, etc. The older I got, the less I wanted to mess with these. Sold or gave away all of them.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,180
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
I have carved planting pockets into sandstone and granite - drilled drain holes. They looked great! No problem overwintering. But they were a bear to move, repot, etc. The older I got, the less I wanted to mess with these. Sold or gave away all of them.
I guess winter in Va. is different than Cali...;-)
 

ShadyStump

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,886
Reaction score
9,733
Location
Southern Colorado, USA
USDA Zone
6a
I guess winter in Va. is different than Cali...;-)
This I think would be the crux of the issue where stone pots are concerned.
I've never worked in quarrying or stone carving personally, but the granite industry is a big deal in my neck of the woods, and you can pick up one or two things just talking to strangers at the grocery store.

Granite, marble, dolomite; sedimentary or igneous; whatever. Different types of stone, and even similar types of stone from different areas, all have different porosity, different chemical compositions, etc. There's really no way to tell which one will break and which one won't.
But if you can account for climate, you're in much better shape. Wetter, cooler climates I'd say would be the worst for stone pots, but someone in the desert- even one with cold winters- should have no issues. I imagine I could keep a granite pot going for quite some time here where I live, even through extreme temperature fluctuations in winter, because it's still very dry.
Care would also play a part. I don't imagine the common practice of watering your trees right before a hard freeze would work out well for a stone pot.

That said, I imagine the reason they aren't at least slightly more common actually has more to do with the difficulty of manufacturing than anything else. Carving a pot from stone is no mean task. Anyone less than an expert can expect hefty and forfeited losses from breakage.
 
Top Bottom