Worked on three on the 5th

Smoke

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Thanks Vance, I have three more that are bushes right now and ready for a new transformation. Just need the time and the effort. This one about killed my back to wire. Mostly standing, since a low table was not good for seeing what to keep and what to wire.

Wire , squat, cut, wire, squat, sip, nap.
 

Vin

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If want to save your back and increase your nap time you could always send the tree to me. I'll even pay for shipping :rolleyes:
 

Smoke

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If want to save your back and increase your nap time you could always send the tree to me. I'll even pay for shipping :rolleyes:

Cool beans, send me a check for $4500.00 to cover shipping and an address and I will get it out.
 

davetree

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Really nice job. It looks to have taken a big jump forward. Thanks for posting.
 

Paradox

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Nice tree and a nice save.

Any idea what was causing it to decline?
 

edprocoat

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Thanks Vance, I have three more that are bushes right now and ready for a new transformation. Just need the time and the effort. This one about killed my back to wire. Mostly standing, since a low table was not good for seeing what to keep and what to wire.

Wire , squat, cut, wire, squat, sip, nap.

I hope the sip was whiskey and the nap was enjoyable.

ed
 

KennedyMarx

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Al, I think the decline of this tree was a blessing in disguise. I think it looks better in the recent picture with the new wiring than it did in the old picture. Really phenomenal tree.
 

lordy

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I have had similar results with growstones that I put a recently dug trident in this spring. It was lush and vigorous since April, and even still has not dropped all it's leaves, even after a week of sub-freezing temps.
Nice work Smoke. It looks very nice.
 

Cadillactaste

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I read your blog...give that lovely wife of yours a hug...what an inspiration she is!

Now...your tree...grow stones...is this the technical name for them? And...you covered the entire roots and such with them...just topping off with bonsai substrate so it would be more eye appealing correct? So...the grow stones so no moisture is held next to the roots that are damaged and need to become healthy? Trying to figure this thing out...my gerbil keeps stumbling on it's wheel trying to grasp the concept of grow rocks. And nothing else...around roots. Which seemed to work. The tree looks amazing after it's ordeal. Glad you were able to safe it!
 

Smoke

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I read your blog...give that lovely wife of yours a hug...what an inspiration she is!

Now...your tree...grow stones...is this the technical name for them? And...you covered the entire roots and such with them...just topping off with bonsai substrate so it would be more eye appealing correct? So...the grow stones so no moisture is held next to the roots that are damaged and need to become healthy? Trying to figure this thing out...my gerbil keeps stumbling on it's wheel trying to grasp the concept of grow rocks. And nothing else...around roots. Which seemed to work. The tree looks amazing after it's ordeal. Glad you were able to safe it!

Thanks for your interest in my trees recovery. I think the thread is one that will go on to support more findings in 2016 when this tree is repotted.

This tree was repotted during a time last season that was during some pretty intense soil wars going on. The battle lines were drawn between turface and akadama, but my contention was that particle size is one of the most important factors in the soil war. Not only size, but consistancy of size between all the particles. Consistancy gives one uniform moisture control. When a soil mix is full of inconsistant soil particles, the soil will have wet zones and dry zones due to the extra capillary action of the smaller particles.

I did this on two extremely different trees to see what the outcome would be. One was this tree,a desert type juniper, and a trident maple. While the juniper faired well and managed to recover from its damage, the trident more or less suffered in the mix. It was too dry allowing too good of drainage and poor moisture retention. Don't get me wrong, the tridents grew extremely well in the mix, and if just growing were the goal I would use it for tridents. I need good growth and pristine leaves as well. The tree leaves burned up and looked terrible at summers end. While I never worried about them dying from the mix, I know they were not flourishing and it showed. Pics later.

While I will let the junipr go another season as it is in the mix, the tridents will be repotted in a much more akadama rich mix in the spring.
 

Shima

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Growstone with milled sphagnum holds H20 better but still the Acer b's were too dry in the poly rain shelter so I'm going to bits the bullet and import some akadama next year. What can I say?
 

Vance Wood

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Thanks Vance, I have three more that are bushes right now and ready for a new transformation. Just need the time and the effort. This one about killed my back to wire. Mostly standing, since a low table was not good for seeing what to keep and what to wire.

Wire , squat, cut, wire, squat, sip, nap.

I know the woes of being older than 50. The eyes are not as good, the back is less forgiving of stress, the hands don't want to cooperate and you do not move as fast. The last tree I worked was that really large Mugo--- and that was a back killer.

You did a great job with this Juniper. It is an accomplishment to bring a Juni back from the brink. When they start looking bad and definitely losing ground it's becomes a matter of the Grinch pulling the sleigh back from falling off the mountain top. Herculean effort indeed, a struggle most of us would have lost. We receive kudos for doing these spectacular designs but very often an accomplishment like this one, which deserves more praise, is ignored with the ubiquitous ho hum.

You have any idea what caused the decline?
 
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wireme

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Its definitely looking better than ever, nice work. I do not doubt your horticulture but generally I would expect more recovery time to be given to a tree with this history before styling. Your choice to give'r and style was based on health of new growth and the amount and degree of work done?
 

Cadillactaste

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Thanks for your interest in my trees recovery. I think the thread is one that will go on to support more findings in 2016 when this tree is repotted.

This tree was repotted during a time last season that was during some pretty intense soil wars going on. The battle lines were drawn between turface and akadama, but my contention was that particle size is one of the most important factors in the soil war. Not only size, but consistancy of size between all the particles. Consistancy gives one uniform moisture control. When a soil mix is full of inconsistant soil particles, the soil will have wet zones and dry zones due to the extra capillary action of the smaller particles.

I did this on two extremely different trees to see what the outcome would be. One was this tree,a desert type juniper, and a trident maple. While the juniper faired well and managed to recover from its damage, the trident more or less suffered in the mix. It was too dry allowing too good of drainage and poor moisture retention. Don't get me wrong, the tridents grew extremely well in the mix, and if just growing were the goal I would use it for tridents. I need good growth and pristine leaves as well. The tree leaves burned up and looked terrible at summers end. While I never worried about them dying from the mix, I know they were not flourishing and it showed. Pics later.

While I will let the junipr go another season as it is in the mix, the tridents will be repotted in a much more akadama rich mix in the spring.

You now mention a mix...yet, I was thinking the juniper was in solid grow rocks for the most part...the top coating was not really addressing roots. But for eye appeal only. ( I'm thinking now I am incorrect in my original thought process)

If the tree was basically in grow rocks the entire time of it's recovery...was you attempting to keep it from having wet roots? Trying to grasp why you chose to plant in just the grow rocks. Which seemed to do the trick on it recovering. But, wishing for a more indepth discussion so I can wrap my brain around it...so it registers verses just words across the screen.
 

Smoke

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Hopefully I can fill in the missing parts.

"Grow Stones" is a product used in the hydroponic industry for growing marijuana plain and simple. It is a recycled manmade product from glass to simulate pumice.

The two trees, a california juniper with bad roots and a trident maple consisting of five one inche trunked maples thru holes in a plate. Both were grown in 100% grow stones. The trident had a covering of sphagnum moss and the juniper had a covering of bonsai soil just to keep the light pumice like product from being washed from the pot during watering.

There is no "mix" and my use of the word should have been pumice instead of the word mix. For me it is just a catch all word for soil. Don't make this harder than it is. This was simply an experiment for those that were having such a cow over 1. grow stones, 2. growing plants in mediums period.

There is no magic medium for growing plants as the medium is not conducive to the plants growth. what the soil does is a couple of things;
It provides a moisture reserve for the roots.
It provides anchorage for the plant
It provides a place for fertilizer to breakdown.
It provides and attractive environment for the display of the tree.

If one can provide water without the need for soil, the plant would live.
If one can provide a stable holding apparatice so the plant can't fall over, the plant will live.
If one can provide nutrients for the plant, the plant will live.

Could we provide that for a plant without soil? Of course, we call it hydroponic farming.
The plants are anchored.
They are allowed to have roots in free air with water trickle.
The water is charged with a fertilizer solution.

Cool no soil. Some plants are grown in a medium to provide a place for the roots to anchor. This can be rockwool, hydrotone, pumice, Grow Stones etc, etc.


Now the problem, we use substrates from all parts of the country. Some have lava, some have akadama, some have haydite, some have turface and some have pumice. It seems that except soil makings from California, few people around the country have all of the aggregates to choose from without costly shipping and costly product, which adds up to double costly. No one wants to pay 60.00 for a bag of akadama shipped across the states. I don't blame them.

I brought up Grow Stones on my blog in Feb. 2013. I called it the Holy Grail. It was posted on Reddit and went viral and has been my largest month so far on my blog. That month saw 5026 views on my blog.

During the soil wars here then, and frankly every bonsai discussion forum since the internet, very few talk about air exchange. This is my holy grail. I feel that as long as the components are of the appropriate size, the medium doesn't really make that much difference. The problem with these soils made from pumice and lava only is that due to the size and the open pourosity of the medium, it dries too quickly. The addition of akadama helps me achieve that. It holds the water for a long time yet gives it up rather slowly. No other medium does that.

Many use turface because it is clay. It does not hold water like akadama nor stay wet for most of the day. It dries too fast. Why turface seems to work for people is the fact that the particle size is smaller and the capillary action keeps the soil more wet, which isn't always good either. Think of it more like the addition of sand. Need more wet soil, add sand.

Below Darlene is the bag and a close up of the product. Two particles will fit confortably on a dime.
 

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Smoke

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These are the two trees in the grow stones. The juniper just has a small 1/2 inch layer of bonsai soil over the top.
 

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Cadillactaste

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Thanks Al for explaining it all to me. I hang my head...and have to admit. I didn't follow the soil wars because being so new to bonsai. It only made my head spin. Your explanation really helps clear a bit of things up for me. And I appreciate the time it took you to explain.
 

Shima

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Not a bad price if you aren't around a "growers" supply. And by the way, it dosen't float away when watered. Say's so on the website and from my experience using it since it first came out. Natural pumice, also glass, holds more H20 but both have their uses.
 
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