working with my sensei

[dick benbow]

Yesterday, I took a mugho Pine that has been with me for over 20 years. I've stared at it for decades and never quite came up with a design that I felt worthy. Yet as my oldest "friend" and part of the bonsai family, I have nurtured it over the years in hope of someday seeing the light.

So on a whim I took it to David De Groot and asked what could be done with it. He sat down with a sketch pad and came up with the basic concept. A wind blown style, I had never considered or honestly never saw it in the tree.

I apologize that i did not have a photo of the tree as it was. I thought I did, but looking thru the hundreds of saved photos, I discovered i had somehow deleted it. So I can only show you the initial concept and the beginning of the effort.

I have my eye on this style of Chinese pot, that my friend John Muth recently selected for his shop from a trip thru china. While i think a oval pot would work nicely as the tree settles into it's new design, I really think an oval is where it will evenutually end up. Tho it was pretty obvious that my teacher thought it best on a slab...

 

[Smoke]

In looking at the tree as it is, and looking at the drawing as it is, by just moving around some branches that are already wired could achieve the drawing right now.

I see a better tree in there with the right artist. No slight to Dave but the tree is really drawn as it is.

I was a little taken aback at his workshop at shohin. He provided some Chinese elms that were grown out in the traditional Chinese "S" curve, very ugly. Then while providing no intsruction help, drew a picture of their tree as it was in the plastic pot with the "S" curved trunk still intact and said "thank you, this is where I see your tree down the road".

I was not impressed.

 

[dick benbow]

We would have to live far enough apart as to ruin what could have been a great assist in my learning curve

... I agree with you on the shohin trees. They were not what he originally had secured, but at the last minute he had to find these or cancel. very unfortunate for him and his students.

I would however appreciate your input (pls) on the pot I'm thinking of using and/or the slab
concept from the drawing.

sharon muth got me this juniper from the convention and brought it back for me.

 

[Smoke]

I bought four pots from Sharon. I like the slab concept and where you live it would be Ok as a container for year round use. For me down here in the central valley, using a slab with moss as the retaining walls would be very short lived as the moss would dry out very fast as well as any clay walls and the soil would wash from the composition.

The pot in the picture reminds me of the old Japanese Shigaraki pots.

It will take a very powerful tree to overcome the pot. That pot is gorgeous as a collectable but too loud for me with a tree.

I have a problem with someone commenting on the beauty of my pot and leaving the tree out of the dialog.....

.....if anyone has experienced that..it may be time to review your composition.

Picture lifted from Brian Van Fleets blog.

 

[Smoke]

... I agree with you on the shohin trees. They were not what he originally had secured, but at the last minute he had to find these or cancel. very unfortunate for him and his students.

I do not know Dave on a personal level. We say hi to each other when we are around but I do not sit in the bar and chat over a beer or something like that. While I know he has studied with some important people and has a range of talents, I find that for me... I would have cancled rather than bring inferior material to a convention. If I did not know him I would have been left with the feeling of that which I wrote about above.

Every two years I get aksed over and over to lead a workshop. I always pass because I will not lead a workshop with crappy material. Talking and drawing only goes so far. People want to come and walk away with something that is tangible and feel armed with enough knowledge to carry them thru the next couple years. This year I taught a workshop at shohin for only the second time.

The tridents I used had been purchased two years before and then I grew them out and pruned for two years before the convention. I felt that I had a good product to use in my workshop. If its not good for me then it won't be good for the customer, and I'm not easy to please.

The maples I provided.

 

[Lancaster]

Those look like pretty decent workshop trees, Smoke. I would have been happy to take that workshop....

 

[dick benbow]

i certainly agree... The tridents would have made great trees.....

could i get some opinions please on the pot I'm thinking about for the wind blown or should i hold out for a slab?
thanks in advance

 

[Smoke]

i certainly agree... The tridents would have made great trees.....

could i get some opinions please on the pot I'm thinking about for the wind blown or should i hold out for a slab?


thanks in advance

See post 4

I take care of business first...then I bloviate

 

[jk_lewis]

Question: David deGroot is one of the finest bonsaiests in North America. However, he is NOT Japanese, so why "sensei"? Seems "teacher" would be appropriate . . .

 

[Ang3lfir3]

Question: David deGroot is one of the finest bonsaiests in North America. However, he is NOT Japanese, so why "sensei"? Seems "teacher" would be appropriate . . .

does it really matter what word he chooses to use?? David is Japanese trained ... so maybe that makes you feel better about the word??

 

[Ang3lfir3]

In looking at the tree as it is, and looking at the drawing as it is, by just moving around some branches that are already wired could achieve the drawing right now.

I see a better tree in there with the right artist. No slight to Dave but the tree is really drawn as it is.

AS Dick clearly stated ... he did not have a picture of the tree BEFORE the work began.... so the image of the tree you see is actually the work AFTER the drawing was done ... so its not drawn as it is... its worked as drawn ....

BNW didn't have these pots when they came to the shohin convention ... they only arrived a few weeks ago and are very nice pots.... including some seriously large glazed pots which is rather hard to find .... they are indeed intended to evoke the idea of the pots you mentioned.... however these parts are stamped instead of being made by hand

Totally agree that slab would be better .... this tree doesn't need a pot .... a pot would feel overly constraining

 

[dick benbow]

Thank-you Eric on the feed back of pot verses slab.

I quess i use the japanese word out of respect for my teacher. 2/3rds of my life I have been involved with japanese hobbies and japanese vocabulary pops up naturally. gets me in trouble on occassion when I'm teaching things about Koi and my students don't speak the lanquage. embarrassing but I'm forgiven, hopefully here also

 

[Jason]

Smoke may I sign up for your next workshop......Sensei? Nice material!

 

[Smoke]

AS Dick clearly stated ... he did not have a picture of the tree BEFORE the work began.... so the image of the tree you see is actually the work AFTER the drawing was done ... so its not drawn as it is... its worked as drawn ....

BNW didn't have these pots when they came to the shohin convention ... they only arrived a few weeks ago and are very nice pots.... including some seriously large glazed pots which is rather hard to find .... they are indeed intended to evoke the idea of the pots you mentioned.... however these parts are stamped instead of being made by hand

Totally agree that slab would be better .... this tree doesn't need a pot .... a pot would feel overly constraining

I reread it...I didn't read it that way...but OK. I can only read the words as written. He didn't specifically say that the picture was drawn before any work, just that he had worked on it for twenty years and took it to Dave for an idea. There is no indication of year between the drawing and the tree as it is. If indeed what you say has happened then Bravo to Dick for getting it there. I still think there is a better tree there.

As far as the pots I was indicating that I bought four pots at the convention from Sharon at the same time he was getting a tree from the same convention. Even if those pots would have been there they are not my taste. To each his own.

Now as far as the tree goes, what is the next step in this tree. To get it to look just like the picture or to take it a different direction entirely?

 

[daygan]

I apologize that i did not have a photo of the tree as it was. .... So I can only show you the initial concept and the beginning of the effort.

Subtle, but it's there. "I don't have the before picture" ... and "I can only show you what it looked like after I started working on it (beginning of the effort) based on the initial concept that David worked out" .

 

[Smoke]

Wow I really missed it. I should read every word. My apoligies to everyone here, especially Dick Benbow.

I guess I was thinking too hard about working on it for twenty years rather than looking at it for twenty years. I don't have the room to keep something that long without working on it. Anything over two years without work makes it's way to the raffle table.

Even puts more emphasis on my remarks about the convention and drawing pictures. "That' was what I was left with to base my remarks on. His workshop was right next to mine. Many of my friends looked over at me and rolled their eyes. It was dissapointing.