Wrong Species Sent to Me from Tennessee Wholesale Nursery... On Purpose...

[barguy8194]

Once again... the main point of this post was, “hey this kinda shitty thing happened. What do i do with these Virginia pines now?”

Not, “this shitty thing happened, let’s have a bitch fest about the nursery and/or the whose fault it was.”

 

[sorce]

My thought? If you sell retail, have your customer service match. If you want to have the customer service to match wholesale, then sell wholesale. Not retail.

I agree.

I would make them some of the dopest trees that ever were.
No sense being upset, since the trees will feel that negative energy.

Take it as a plus!

Maybe root over rock em since they're bare.

Sorce

 

[Orion_metalhead]

If you have a pitch pine grove locally... why order pitch pine online? Youll get far superb pitch pines from the grove..

Regardless, your virginia pines look healthy at least, and im sure youll enjoy them much more than nasty attitudes from that seller.

 

[barguy8194]

If you have a pitch pine grove locally... why order pitch pine online? Youll get far superb pitch pines from the grove..

There aren't any groves within an hour's drive of me... it's a bit of a stretch to get there. Not too bad, and I'll probably end up making that trip now. I was hoping to save some driving time, honestly, and I'm still a newbie at Bonsai, so I really just wanted some nursery trees in the event that I might end up killing them. For some reason I think I'd feel way less crappy about myself if I killed nursery trees than if I dug up wild trees from their homes just to bring them home and murder them... lol.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Fair enough. You can grow from seeds if you want. Pitch pine are easy to germinate.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@barguy8194
You are the White Mountains of New Hampshire, USDA zone 4, this is a short summer growing season. If you have less than 100 days between last frost of Spring and first frost of Autumn, I would NOT decandle the Virginia Pine as one would a JBP or JRP. Both @Adair M & @Brian Van Fleet who recommended decandling, live in much milder climates, zone 7 or zone 8, with nice long summers over 150 day long growing seasons. I think Brian is over 200 day growing season. Decandling only works in long summer climates, such as Japan, Memphis & Atlanta. I would recommend treating your Virginia pine as you would a Pinus sylvestris, Scots pine, or mugo, or Jack pine. The Virginia pine is technically in the same subgroup as Pinus banksiana, Jack pine, and Pinus contorta, the Lodgepole pines & Shore Pines. If you already have experience with either of its relative, they should be your guide. I treat my Jack pines more or less the same as I treat Mugo pines. Basically, everything is done after the summer solstice, most pruning and repotting and wiring is done in August (or at least that is when I do my work). For personal reasons, August is when I have time, and is when I repot. I have cool summers, with an average of fewer than 10 day over 90 F (+32 C), which is a relatively cool summer. I would assume in the White Mountains, your summers are similar.

I do find P. banksiana will back bud on older wood to some degree, best backbudding is on wood less than 10 years old, but I have had random buds sprout on older wood. Not real reliable, but it does happen. I would assume P. virginiana is similar.

I don't know if they are found near you, but P. banksiana seems a decent pine for bonsai once you get past collection & that first potting up from wild collection. They are difficult to collect successfully. Not impossible, but nobody has a 90% or better success rate for collecting them. 25% to 50% success seems to be "good success rate" with Jack pines. But if you have them near you, they have exceptional winter hardiness. They withstand incredible cold & exposed settings. I don't even take mine off the bonsai bench for the winter. They do fine exposed to all the elements. From seed and seedlings, they seem pretty similar to the growth rates of P. sylvestris and other pines.

 

[Adair M]

@barguy8194
You are the White Mountains of New Hampshire, USDA zone 4, this is a short summer growing season. If you have less than 100 days between last frost of Spring and first frost of Autumn, I would NOT decandle the Virginia Pine as one would a JBP or JRP. Both @Adair M & @Brian Van Fleet who recommended decandling, live in much milder climates, zone 7 or zone 8, with nice long summers over 150 day long growing seasons. I think Brian is over 200 day growing season. Decandling only works in long summer climates, such as Japan, Memphis & Atlanta. I would recommend treating your Virginia pine as you would a Pinus sylvestris, Scots pine, or mugo, or Jack pine. The Virginia pine is technically in the same subgroup as Pinus banksiana, Jack pine, and Pinus contorta, the Lodgepole pines & Shore Pines. If you already have experience with either of its relative, they should be your guide. I treat my Jack pines more or less the same as I treat Mugo pines. Basically, everything is done after the summer solstice, most pruning and repotting and wiring is done in August (or at least that is when I do my work). For personal reasons, August is when I have time, and is when I repot. I have cool summers, with an average of fewer than 10 day over 90 F (+32 C), which is a relatively cool summer. I would assume in the White Mountains, your summers are similar.

I do find P. banksiana will back bud on older wood to some degree, best backbudding is on wood less than 10 years old, but I have had random buds sprout on older wood. Not real reliable, but it does happen. I would assume P. virginiana is similar.

I don't know if they are found near you, but P. banksiana seems a decent pine for bonsai once you get past collection & that first potting up from wild collection. They are difficult to collect successfully. Not impossible, but nobody has a 90% or better success rate for collecting them. 25% to 50% success seems to be "good success rate" with Jack pines. But if you have them near you, they have exceptional winter hardiness. They withstand incredible cold & exposed settings. I don't even take mine off the bonsai bench for the winter. They do fine exposed to all the elements. From seed and seedlings, they seem pretty similar to the growth rates of P. sylvestris and other pines.

That’s something to consider, Leo. I did not check to see where the OP lived. Virginia Pine are native around here, and they can be decandled. I’m not familiar with growing anything in New Hampshire!

 

[barguy8194]

@barguy8194
You are the White Mountains of New Hampshire, USDA zone 4, this is a short summer growing season. If you have less than 100 days between last frost of Spring and first frost of Autumn, I would NOT decandle the Virginia Pine as one would a JBP or JRP.

Thanks for the advice, @Leo in N E Illinois !

Also, as far as I know, jack pine isn’t native to NH. I only ever see strobus and resinosa near me, (with possibly one rigida down the street from me... I’m tempted to ask my neighbor to let me try air layering it, but it’s the only one I have found nearby) and there are pitch pines within two hours’ drive. There’s a large pine barren near Ossipee, NH, and there’s actually an old growth pitch pine stand in White Lake State Park, with tall, straight trunks that are rare in pitch pine these days. That’s more than two hours away from me, though.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Yes, it is not something that leaps to mind right away. I seldom decandle my JBP because my summers are so short. I have to decandle before June 15, and often candles have not really started growing yet. Some years I have good growth by then, but seldom. So most years my JBP get treated as single flush pines.

 

[barguy8194]

Yes, it is not something that leaps to mind right away. I seldom decandle my JBP because my summers are so short. I have to decandle before June 15, and often candles have not really started growing yet. Some years I have good growth by then, but seldom. So most years my JBP get treated as single flush pines.

If I hadn’t just gotten them bare rooted and potted them, this might be a good year for decandling. It’s been an unusually warm winter, and an unusually warm spring. We already have maple buds opening, which is 2-3 weeks early for us.
But... just got them this year... they’re going to grow untouched in deep pots this year, regardless.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thanks for the advice, @Leo in N E Illinois !

Also, as far as I know, jack pine isn’t native to NH. I only ever see strobus and resinosa near me, (with possibly one rigida down the street from me... I’m tempted to ask my neighbor to let me try air layering it, but it’s the only one I have found nearby) and there are pitch pines within two hours’ drive. There’s a large pine barren near Ossipee, NH, and there’s actually an old growth pitch pine stand in White Lake State Park, with tall, straight trunks that are rare in pitch pine these days. That’s more than two hours away from me, though.

Prior to 1491, the pitch pine stand along the east coast of North America were tall straight trunks. Those forests were completely clear cut for British, to a lesser degree French, and possibly some Spanish logging, and later what became USA shipbuilding. The "Pine Barrens" are a man-made, or man influenced second growth habitat that developed after the initial clear cutting of the old growth forests. The tall pitch pines were favorite for maritime construction because of the high pitch content. Another tree that became scarce that used to be common before 1491 is Chamaecyparis thyoides - the Atlantic white cedar. Now a rarely seen tree that was also prised for its lumber. Enjoy the old growth stand in White Lake SP.

So the second growth pitch pines, grew all contorted and stunted because soil erosion, fire and other changes that happened after the old growth forests were cut, these changes made the habitat unsuitable for growing tall straight tree. When planted in plantations, pitch pine does produce tall straight trees, especially if there is irrigation during drought years, when the trunks are young. We would not know except by studying the old growth stands and then reading diaries of early settlers to the east coast. Fascinating book, 1491 by Charles C. Mann

 

[barguy8194]

Prior to 1491, the pitch pine stand along the east coast of North America were tall straight trunks. Those forests were completely clear cut for British, to a lesser degree French, and possibly some Spanish logging, and later what became USA shipbuilding. The "Pine Barrens" are a man-made, or man influenced second growth habitat that developed after the initial clear cutting of the old growth forests. The tall pitch pines were favorite for maritime construction because of the high pitch content. Another tree that became scarce that used to be common before 1491 is Chamaecyparis thyoides - the Atlantic white cedar. Now a rarely seen tree that was also prised for its lumber. Enjoy the old growth stand in White Lake SP.

So the second growth pitch pines, grew all contorted and stunted because soil erosion, fire and other changes that happened after the old growth forests were cut, these changes made the habitat unsuitable for growing tall straight tree. When planted in plantations, pitch pine does produce tall straight trees, especially if there is irrigation during drought years, when the trunks are young. We would not know except by studying the old growth stands and then reading diaries of early settlers to the east coast. Fascinating book, 1491 by Charles C. Mann

I love that history! I knew the reason for the gnarly looking pitch pines was that they were all logged off by colonists, but didn’t know all the specifics.
I can’t wait for blight resistant American chestnuts to come on the scene (not for bonsai, I’ve heard they kinda suck for our purposes, but just to see them).
My single time travel wish would be just to go back and see what an undisturbed American east coast forest looked like...

 

[barguy8194]

In other news... did some driving around with the kiddos today (6 and 7 years old... they thought the tree collecting was fun, but the hours in the car got old quick). Managed to come home with one pitch pine and one tamarack. Wish I could have gotten more but I’m definitely going to have to scope better areas when it gets a little warmer. It’s been such a weird winter that some trees are popping buds, while others a hundred yards away are still in froze soil.