XXL Trident

Eric Group

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I have a new project for next year in addition to the Zuisho white pine, this is a very large trident, the biggest tree that I've handled.
I am very excited about this tree, it has potential to be a really stunning natural tree. The trunk and base are already quite perfect, I'll have a lot of transition work to do up top. Just for scale the tub that it's in is 25" across. I'll be repotting into a large pot that should work for it this spring.

The trunks are a bit further apart than the pictures show, but I'll be adding more space where I can manage it.

The second and last picture will be the front for this tree.

So, the chunk you removed... Would that be the middle piece? Like, if say we looked at the pics you posted in the first post.. The third pic- the piece in the middle is what you took off? Just trying to get an idea... If so.. Looking at this tree with that angle as the front, I think you made a great move!

What porker... This is an absolutely MASSIVE tree... Something you need to get Walter Pal to look at... I could see it all haunting and fairy tale looking after a few years...
 

JudyB

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Awesome photo angle! Thanks Judy...wracking my brain on the Olive you mention. Yes, I'm getting the chopping to achieve an overall better look.

Here is the thread for the olive Darlene, it's a great read, and shows you how it was hard for me to overcome that hurdle of doing what needs done. I at first balked and was slow to take the needed steps, but with encouragement was able to get over it and the tree is better for it.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?7016-Help-needed-with-Eu-Olive-styling
 

JudyB

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So, the chunk you removed... Would that be the middle piece? Like, if say we looked at the pics you posted in the first post.. The third pic- the piece in the middle is what you took off? Just trying to get an idea... If so.. Looking at this tree with that angle as the front, I think you made a great move!

What porker... This is an absolutely MASSIVE tree... Something you need to get Walter Pal to look at... I could see it all haunting and fairy tale looking after a few years...


This should show better where the trunk was. I will still need to decide if I reduce the old chop sites on two of the trunks, or just allow the top sections to blend in from growth.
I was confident about removal of that trunk, the only thing stopping me is that someone told me that it's better to have an odd number of trunks on multiples. But in this case it's what was necessary, and as the one trunk is lower and to the side, to me it reads more 3 and 1. Silly rules anyway...
I'll go get some photos of the editing of the branches today.

I was hoping to get to Woodstock with it this year, but alas, my work schedule is not allowing it. But this tree's got the goods, so I feel like I can see where it needs to go.
 

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tmpgh

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I like the decision to remove that section. It opens it up and really shows off the strength of the trunk even more, I think. Thanks for the update.
 

MACH5

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"But in this case it's what was necessary, and as the one trunk is lower and to the side, to me it reads more 3 and 1. Silly rules anyway...
I'll go get some photos of the editing of the branches today."




Yes I agree Juds. This reads as three trunks and a side branch. My eye is not picking it up as four trunks.

In my opinion this tree will need a large rounded canopy to match the big 'ol trunk.


EDIT: Judy funny you bought this tree. As probably at least a few folks looked at it as well, I was no exception. I almost pulled the trigger on it a while back simply because of it's size. What great material! But alas I could not betray my love affair with Japanese maples. I am so happy that at least it landed in capable hands :eek:
 
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JudyB

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And even funnier Sergio, is that I looked at this tree but never seriously because of it's size. But it's worth the trouble that it'll be for sure.

Here are some photos after reductions to the chops. Still have some branch editing, and wiring to do. Trying to find a position that you can see all the trunks. The back one tends to hide behind the front one. But with the sides taken off the chop on the front trunk, there is more separation between the front and right trunk, so that's much better. First pic is before for comparison.
 

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tmpgh

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Judy, could you rotate maybe 20 degrees counter clockwise from the angle of pic two above and let us have a look?
 

JudyB

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Pic 3 last post is a bit further that way, here is even more roatated, problem is that the middle and right trunk then blend into each other and don't seem separate at that point in the turn.
 

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tmpgh

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Try turning it so that you can see directly in between those two front branches. It will expose the scar you just made, but I think you'll be able to see the two right trunks better. let's have a look.
 

sorce

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I wouldn't be overly concerned with a front.

The Nebari says this is a 360 degree tree.

That trunk removal was a big plus.

Ramification. Perfection.

Sorce
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Walter's trident (first image) is a good model for your tree. I like how his still shows some trunk taper, while being massive.

To get there, you may eventually want to remove that back trunk as well, and replace the foliage mass with something newer and smaller coming from the main trunk; by getting lucky or grafting. Thenk, pull the upper branch over to the left to help fill the profile.
 

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JudyB

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@tmpgh, I'll have to go turn and shoot that angle, I think I'll loose the side branch going that far, but I'll take a look.

Brian, thanks for the virt! I have that same WP tree in my files, and have also been using it as a comparison to my tree. I like your virt, but it looses that massive feel that seems to be the heart of this tree to me. I think I'll get a more striking open grown massive crowned tree if I keep all of the trunks at this point. Did you minimize the right trunk as well with this virt, or is it just the angle that hides that side?
 

JudyB

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I wouldn't be overly concerned with a front.

The Nebari says this is a 360 degree tree.

But there is always a need to determine a front. You must put it in a pot at the correct viewing angle, and you must work your branches to a particular front angle. And there is always a best angle for even a 360 nebari. This one's best nebari angle is pic#3 in post 48. But the trunk angles look best in pic 2 at this point. I know-it's picking nits, but it's an important nit to pick. Don't believe anyone who tells you it's not important to choose a front....
 

MACH5

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But there is always a need to determine a front. You must put it in a pot at the correct viewing angle, and you must work your branches to a particular front angle. And there is always a best angle for even a 360 nebari. This one's best nebari angle is pic#3 in post 48. But the trunk angles look best in pic 2 at this point. I know-it's picking nits, but it's an important nit to pick. Don't believe anyone who tells you it's not important to choose a front....


I as well believe that there is an absolute "best viewing angle" to EVERY tree. If there is someone claiming that their tree looks all the way around, I am also willing to bet that one of those angles could be improved.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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@Brian, thanks for the virt! I have that same WP tree in my files, and have also been using it as a comparison to my tree. I like your virt, but it looses that massive feel that seems to be the heart of this tree to me. I think I'll get a more striking open grown massive crowned tree if I keep all of the trunks at this point. Did you minimize the right trunk as well with this virt, or is it just the angle that hides that side?
I don't think I shaded the right trunk. I get where you're coming from on taper vs. mass. The tree certainly can go either way, and it will be interesting to watch it develop over the years.
 
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I like your virt, but it looses that massive feel that seems to be the heart of this tree to me. I think I'll get a more striking open grown massive crowned tree if I keep all of the trunks at this point.

This tree was grown for mass, not taper, and I personally prefer it as a short, stout, broad-spreading tree much like the old white oaks that grow near my house.

You can cut off all the branches and develop a fat tree with good taper, and it will be nice too. But, then, why? You can always find a fat tree with taper already in place.

This trident has all the right features to look like a tree, and that is its appeal. Why make it look like "bonsai."
 

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