Yamadoori and nursery pines

maroun.c

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Will be taking out 2-3 pines i have spotted as well as buying a couple from a nursery that grows them in a field in burlap.
Nursery recommends taking out now. And illntakenout a couple trees these coming weeks and a few early spring to see if I get clearly different results....
My question is do I transition to nursery immediately (HBR) upon removal as they are at higher energy than they will be in a pot in 1-2 years or better let them settle from removal from soil
thanks
 

Potawatomi13

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If understanding well and nursery trees in burlap is essentially same as being in pot except for escaped roots being cut off. Present time of year bad for repot with root work as no time for root recovery before dormancy. Would be best to just put in grow container unless getting in Spring/late Winter and then could do some root work. Personally do not do hbr but do general root reduction at repot time. If burlap trees in clay/poor soil try clean out of central area under trunk base then spread other roots out without much initial reduction. This advice given presuming trees to be conifers. "Most" broadleaved/deciduous trees not as finiky of more root work at repot in Spring;).
 

Shibui

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Oregon timing advice may not be the best for Lebanon.
If your local nursery advises that local conditions are good now I'd believe that.

Burlap trees are just dug from the field and the root ball wrapped in burlap to stop the soil falling off. Soil will just be field soil which is fine for landscape as the trees will go back into similar soil. Not so for pots. Watering CAN be adjusted for the more water retentive clays/field soil but it is easy to forget and water too much. Too much field soil in pots can easily cause death. Field soil will need to be removed at some stage. I make a point of shaking as much as will come away without too much root damage before potting into my preferred potting mix. If the soil does not come away easily I usually try to rake some out to increase the good potting mix ratio in the new pots. If all the field soil falls off at collection or at potting I am more than happy to see it gone. Provided the roots are not pressure washed there will still be more than enough soil adhered to the roots to provide a seeding of whatever beneficials the tree requires.

Others may have other ideas and it is likely that a number of approaches will work.
 

maroun.c

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Indeed they recommend this time (which got.me interested as well) we are at 15-20 degrees Celsius now and expecting to drop to 10-15 degrees Celsius till mid/ end Dec. Then we would have a month or two at 10-15 degrees Celsius except maybe few days (5_10 days total) at 5-10 degrees Celsius.
And yes the concern was for escaped roots they would need to cut while removing.
 

Colorado

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I would pot in pumice, let it grow roots for 2 or 3 years, then start the HBR method if that is the method you want to use.
 

leatherback

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I am poor with pines, would however have taken the Sibiu route.

If you can, get a few pins seedlings to plant into the pot with your larger trees. They will have to colonize the rootball with mycchoriza. Lacking that, ask whether the nursery has myc primers for your substrate.
 

Shibui

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In the early days I followed the recommendation to transfer some old soil to each new pot.
After finding a seedling tray full of the stuff even though that tray had never been innoculated I stopped bothering. All my pine pots are still full of mychorriza.

Unless you pressure wash the roots there will still be Mychorriza adhering to the soil particles that are left on the roots that will just take off in the new soil.
Spores are floating around in the air if there are pines anywhere nearby and probably much, much further given that spores are so small and light. They will soon colonize any suitable medium with the correct tree.

There's also plenty of info pointing out that pines,and other trees, use fungi to help provide nutrients in poor soils with limited available nutrients but those species that use fungal association are also able to take in nutrients directly if they are available which means the fungi are not needed when nutrients are readily available in the soil. Most bonsai pots have plenty of nutrients in readily available form so I suspect the fungi are not a crucial part of tree health in bonsai.
 

leatherback

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In the early days I followed the recommendation to transfer some old soil to each new pot.
After finding a seedling tray full of the stuff even though that tray had never been innoculated I stopped bothering. All my pine pots are still full of mychorriza.

Unless you pressure wash the roots there will still be Mychorriza adhering to the soil particles that are left on the roots that will just take off in the new soil.
Spores are floating around in the air if there are pines anywhere nearby and probably much, much further given that spores are so small and light. They will soon colonize any suitable medium with the correct tree.

There's also plenty of info pointing out that pines,and other trees, use fungi to help provide nutrients in poor soils with limited available nutrients but those species that use fungal association are also able to take in nutrients directly if they are available which means the fungi are not needed when nutrients are readily available in the soil. Most bonsai pots have plenty of nutrients in readily available form so I suspect the fungi are not a crucial part of tree health in bonsai.
Agreed that it is not needed. I also do not add them. But scientific studies on transplants & especially, transfer into pots, indicate a better recovery of roots when inoculated explicitly.
 

sorce

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I have a concern that this "fall", even in Lebanon, or especially in Lebanon, wouldn't be so far off the same calendar we see here, where fall is a good time for transplanting clay burlapped trees into the yard.
I would consider this, as you seem to be, the one best time to give them a "bonsai future", which, if done correctly, means this operation falls outside the definition under which "fall" is a safe time to replant.

I think we will end up finding it always safer to wash all old "hard to water or ever make look aesthetically pleasing" soil out completely, with the reintroduction of, not just "mycorrhizae", but entire pieces of what was it's natural "biosphere".
I think this could be placed completely safely in the bottom of a pot, to be purposely washed out over time, and easy to clean out once that life moves up into the perimeter of a small future pot.

The question about repot timing, then becomes one of, at what temperatures is the mycorrhizae most active?

Sorce
 

sorce

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Holy shit I just realized the name of the link.
It's a sign.

#HotRepot

Sorce
 

maroun.c

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Tha ks for all the replies.
So far I have killed most pines i repotted so basically its clear that my technique and orntiming is way off so will be following all above advice and experimenting with different timings to see what works. As long as someone had success with any method no harm trying it and then sees what works for my weather, soil and water.
No luck finding mycorrhizae here , doubt qny local nursery people except a couple maybe have heard of it unfortunately.
Thanks
 

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