Yamadori Elm

CLbonsai86

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Hello. I recently collected some (what I believe to be) elms and I am wondering exactly what type they are. I do not have photos of the leaves although they look an elm. I am located in Raleigh, North Carolina. If you can help me please let me know!
 

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WNC Bonsai

Omono
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Looks more like American hornbeam to me. When did you collect them? I have one I collected last winter and it has grown a lot of new shoots over the summer. Do a search for American hornbeam on here and you will find a lot of info.
Also check out Zach Smith’s bonsaisouth.com website, he has written a lot about them.
 

Zach Smith

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Hello. I recently collected some (what I believe to be) elms and I am wondering exactly what type they are. I do not have photos of the leaves although they look an elm. I am located in Raleigh, North Carolina. If you can help me please let me know!
This is American hornbeam, carpinus caroliniana. Great species for bonsai. I wouldn't collect them this time of year, but hopefully you'll have good luck. Be sure to seal that trunk chop!
 

CLbonsai86

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This is American hornbeam, carpinus caroliniana. Great species for bonsai. I wouldn't collect them this time of year, but hopefully you'll have good luck. Be sure to seal that trunk chop!
Thank you! Currently sealed over with aluminum tape!
 

CLbonsai86

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This is American hornbeam, carpinus caroliniana. Great species for bonsai. I wouldn't collect them this time of year, but hopefully you'll have good luck. Be sure to seal that trunk chop!
When do you recommend collection? I will be collection more eventually and would the best chance of success! Thanks in advance!
 

W3rk

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Where are you geographically/what zone?

Best time to collect - for deciduous - is late winter early spring. Look for the buds starting to move (before they leaf out) as a good visual cue.
 

willw86

Yamadori
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I plan on collecting a few hornbeams like this in early Spring. I love the buttressing roots they tend to develop. You may want to chop that trunk lower unless you are shooting for a very tall and skinny tree. Just my two cents. Hope this pulls through for you, please update us with what happens.
 

Zach Smith

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When do you recommend collection? I will be collection more eventually and would the best chance of success! Thanks in advance!
I start in January, but you may want to wait another month or so since you're in a colder climate than I am. If you're currently using a shovel, get a saw for lifting them. A slim hand saw or a cordless reciprocating saw will work. They come up fast.
 

rockm

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Hello. I recently collected some (what I believe to be) elms and I am wondering exactly what type they are. I do not have photos of the leaves although they look an elm. I am located in Raleigh, North Carolina. If you can help me please let me know!
Probably the worst time you could collect this tree. Unless you have a place to store it over the winter that doesn't freeze, this is probably a dead tree. I have found that collected Carpinus Caroliniana (It's really Carolina Hornbeam ,but has an extremely large distribution in the eastern U.S.), are very vulnerable to freezing in first couple of years out of the ground.

sorry, that's just the way it works.. Additionally, all the fuel the tree needs to begin regrowth in the spring is mostly left behind in the roots you cut off when collecting it. These are usually collected in early March in Va. and N.C.
 

CLbonsai86

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Probably the worst time you could collect this tree. Unless you have a place to store it over the winter that doesn't freeze, this is probably a dead tree. I have found that collected Carpinus Caroliniana (It's really Carolina Hornbeam ,but has an extremely large distribution in the eastern U.S.), are very vulnerable to freezing in first couple of years out of the ground.

sorry, that's just the way it works.. Additionally, all the fuel the tree needs to begin regrowth in the spring is mostly left behind in the roots you cut off when collecting it. These are usually collected in early March in Va. and N.C.
Thank you. Yes I waited for a good soaking rain, lifted 4 trees with a lot of roots, will keep them in a shed through the winter to protect them from frost. Any other help is very much appreciated as well!! I also plan on waiting to see where I get new branches next spring to decide where to chop each one, as I left them all a bit tall. Thank you!
 

Sifu

Yamadori
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When do you recommend collection? I will be collection more eventually and would the best chance of success! Thanks in advance!
Fall is a good time for collecting yamadori, IF you transplant your trees in a ground or in a very big training pot/container to protect freshly grown roots from frost. There is a video on youtube when some guy has been transplanting a lot of Japanese Maples (young trees about the human size, not bonsai trees) while doing hard root prunning after first freezing with great success in the beginning of december. So everything is possible, if you know what you are doing. Bonsai master Walter Pall, for example, recommend middle august/early september repoting. Aftercare is the most important.

And here you can even find 4 reasons why fall is the perfect time for transplanting trees and shrubs :)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj6urOXiMDeAhXPsKQKHc5UBpwQFjACegQIBhAB&url=https://www.highgrove.net/blog/bid/348524/4-Reasons-Fall-is-the-Perfect-Time-for-Transplanting-Trees-and-Shrubs-on-Your-Property&usg=AOvVaw3fzqIGLnw5muNzxpJdoUBG

But you are safer with transplanting/repotting bonsai and pre-bonsai in early spring, just before buds starts to open. This is from Bonsai4 Me: "Repotting work normally needs to be done during the early spring; when the tree is still in dormancy. This way the somewhat damaging effect of repotting on a tree is reduced to a minimum, as the tree does not yet have to sustain a full-grown foliage. Repotting in early spring will also ensure that damage done to the root system will be repaired soon, as soon as the tree starts growing."
 
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CLbonsai86

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Fall is a good time for collecting yamadori, IF you transplant your trees in a ground or in a very big training pot/container to protect freshly grown roots from frost. There is a video on youtube when some guy has been transplanting a lot of Japanese Maples (young trees about the human size, not bonsai trees) while doing hard root prunning after first freezing with great success in the beginning of december. So everything is possible, if you know what you are doing. Bonsai master Walter Pall, for example, recommend middle august/early september repoting. Aftercare is the most important.

And here you can even find 4 reasons why fall is the perfect time for transplanting trees and shrubs :)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj6urOXiMDeAhXPsKQKHc5UBpwQFjACegQIBhAB&url=https://www.highgrove.net/blog/bid/348524/4-Reasons-Fall-is-the-Perfect-Time-for-Transplanting-Trees-and-Shrubs-on-Your-Property&usg=AOvVaw3fzqIGLnw5muNzxpJdoUBG

But you are safer with transplanting/repotting bonsai and pre-bonsai in early spring, just before buds starts to open. This is from Bonsai4 Me: "Repotting work normally needs to be done during the early spring; when the tree is still in dormancy. This way the somewhat damaging effect of repotting on a tree is reduced to a minimum, as the tree does not yet have to sustain a full-grown foliage. Repotting in early spring will also ensure that damage done to the root system will be repaired soon, as soon as the tree starts growing."
Thank you for the response. I have them in very large pots, 26” diameter at the moment. I also did not bare root these trees, I left a lot of native soil, mostly clay. My question is whether I should let these be through the growing season or pull them out and bare root them come spring? Thank you in advance!
 

WNC Bonsai

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I collected mine last February but would not do that again. Instead I would wait much later and collect before bud break in the spring. Last winter was a pain with the warm cycles and even in my unheated garage I was afraid they would pop buds early. Also I left mine a bit tall following the same idea you espoused about waiting to see where buds pop before cutting back. Unfortunatley almost all my buds popped on the uppermost sections of the stem so now I will be chopping back again this coming spring in hopes of forcing some buds lower down on the stem to pop.
 

WNC Bonsai

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Thank you for the response. I have them in very large pots, 26” diameter at the moment. I also did not bare root these trees, I left a lot of native soil, mostly clay. My question is whether I should let these be through the growing season or pull them out and bare root them come spring? Thank you in advance!
Personally I would have bare rooted them when collected and potted them up in a well drained mix of pumice and 10-20% bark. Then keep them in part shade with lots of watering and fertilizer all summer. Once they start to grow new roots you run the risk of doing more damage by repotting them.
 

rockm

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Thank you. Yes I waited for a good soaking rain, lifted 4 trees with a lot of roots, will keep them in a shed through the winter to protect them from frost. Any other help is very much appreciated as well!! I also plan on waiting to see where I get new branches next spring to decide where to chop each one, as I left them all a bit tall. Thank you!
Water really has nothing to do with the transfer. It's spurred by hormones. Good luck!
 

CLbonsai86

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Water really has nothing to do with the transfer. It's spurred by hormones. Good luck!
I was just referring to the rain as it allows for easier removal.. Thank you!
 

CLbonsai86

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Pulled them out, bare-rooted them and placed them back.. Watered them in. They all showed a good amount of fibrous roots so I guess we will see.. Thanks!
 

CLbonsai86

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Should I place these trees in shade or sun? Thanks!
 

Sifu

Yamadori
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Should I place these trees in shade or sun? Thanks!
During fall/winter it doesn't really matter. For growing season full sun is preferred mostly for conifers, while deciduous trees, especially hornbeams, require less sunlight, with a few exceptions. Partial sun (3 - 6 hours of sun per day, preferably in the cooler hours of the morning and early afternoon) or even partial shade should work just fine. Avoid full shade and direct afternoon sun during very hot summers.
 
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