Yamadori oak trunk chop question

[Fonz]

I have access to a bunch of oak trees that are growing in forest owned by my mother. I'm new to this so excuse me if this all sounds stupid but here we go anyway.

My question is if it's possible to do trunk chops on some of these Oaks? Keep in mind that no root work has been done, they are about 4-5 metres (13-16ft) tall, have a trunk base varying from 5-10 cm (2-4") and they all are standing in very shaded places.

One of my concerns is the shade will not allow to let the chopped trunk survive.

Any advise on what's possible or what I should do best is much appreciated.

I've attached some pics.

Pic 1: 4" trunk
Pic 2: 2" trunk
Pic 3: 4" trunk with some deadwood

 

[BrianBay9]

You could start by chopping back to the lowest live limb / foliage and see how the trees react. Not likely to kill them this way, and they may back bud much lower in response, which would allow another chop lower down.

 

[Fonz]

So when would be a good time to do this? I read somewhere that late spring or the beginning of the summer is adviced...

 

[rockm]

Rule of thumb it is not good to trunk chop and leave the tree where it is in temperate forest conditions -- at least here in the eastern U.S. Generally, the loss of the top growth kills off the roots, because the new growth that is produced can't support the root mass.

Generally, the top is given a rough chop when the tree is collected. European collectors have begun collecting oaks in the summer and are having more success than spring collection.

 

[Fonz]

So basically I should give the top a rough chop, dig out the tree, prune the roots and put it in a big pot within the next month or so?

 

[rockm]

Basically you should dig the tree. Do a rough chop --at the collection site-- about five inches ABOVE where you see the final apex. Seal that chop with something. Then take it home to to a container with good bonsai soil--all in ONE DAY. Then let it be for two or three years THEN after some initial branching and new apex leader shoots have appeared (hopefully) decide on where a "final chop" should go. Think about it, then chop again--sealing the chop afterward.

 

[Fonz]

Basically you should dig the tree. Do a rough chop --at the collection site-- about five inches ABOVE where you see the final apex. Seal that chop with something. Then take it home to to a container with good bonsai soil--all in ONE DAY. Then let it be for two or three years THEN after some initial branching and new apex leader shoots have appeared (hopefully) decide on where a "final chop" should go. Think about it, then chop again--sealing the chop afterward.

That is the info I was searching for. Thanks a bunch!

 

[Maros]

If trees are in shade they could easily die after chopping. Not necessarily, because it it is Quercus robur then it is very strong species, with ability to sprout from many places below chop line. Beeing it on sunny spot, you can chop in spring or early summer, no problem.

Problem is something else here. It is not really interesting material. If you are new to the business you'll have hard time producing anything decent from in in a decade. Are you sure you want that? Bear in mind, watering daily, sometimes twice a day, fertilizing weekly, cutting back 1-2 times a year and still result could be far away in a decade. Think about it. My point is, if you find GOOD material go for it and collect. If it is below average why bother?

If you are from Belgium, you are able to find decent place to sell you good yamadori material for lets say 150€-300€. Three-four years after collection, established. Count price of your effort and resources you'll put into those trunks.

Don't get me wrong, I do collect trees myself mostly. But try to aim for quality from early on. I understand having any stuff on your property is tempting. But having possibility to collect anything does not mean you have to.
Just my two cents mate.

 

[Fonz]

Thanx for the advice Maros. I know it won't be an overnight project but I might as well give it a go with one tree and see where I end up with it. If I encounter better specimen I can Always collect them. For now I'll be practicing on some conifers and who knows in 10 years I'll be styling an ugly oak trunk I collected a decade ago

 

[Maros]

Thanx for the advice Maros. I know it won't be an overnight project but I might as well give it a go with one tree and see where I end up with it. If I encounter better specimen I can Always collect them. For now I'll be practicing on some conifers and who knows in 10 years I'll be styling an ugly oak trunk I collected a decade ago

Go for it mate. Go there in April/May. Chop it really low, just few centimeter above point where you would like to have change of taper of the trunk. Collect it then immediately, plant in inorganic substrate and feed and water like hell. Let the new leaders grow really long to help healing wounds.
Don't forget to post the progress. Fingers crossed.

 

[Zach Smith]

First of all, if that first tree has the leaves most abundant in the photo, it's not an oak. Second, none of these specimens is really worthy of collecting. They have no taper in the first 12-24". That means you're looking at a really long development period. And finally, this is not the best time to collect material if you're just starting out.

Look for trees that have a fork in the trunk fairly low down. You can usually cut to one and get some nice taper. As for taper, measure the trunk diameter at the base and then look for the point on the trunk where it's half this diameter. If that happens in the first 12-24" (depending on basal trunk diameter) then it's worth collecting.

Good luck!

Zach

 

[ConorDash]

Given all the advice above, I'd say go for it with whatever plan you think best.
Bad material or not.

Just limit your expectations in terms of what you want from it in 5-10 years. But doing it, is good experience and a learning opportunity, and that's never a waste of time!

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Hé Fonz, you should go see Danny Use of Ginkgo Bonsai. He's not too far from Antwerp and has a lot of experience, knowledge and really nice material.

 

[Fonz]

First of all, if that first tree has the leaves most abundant in the photo, it's not an oak.

It's an oak, those leaves you see are from other plants.
I'll certainly be on the lookout for other, better suitable trees. Thanks.

 

[Fonz]

Given all the advice above, I'd say go for it with whatever plan you think best.
Bad material or not.

Just limit your expectations in terms of what you want from it in 5-10 years. But doing it, is good experience and a learning opportunity, and that's never a waste of time!

I'll certainly do that. As you said it's all about getting experience on this matter. My expectations weren't that high to begin with.

 

[Fonz]

Hé Fonz, you should go see Danny Use of Ginkgo Bonsai. He's not too far from Antwerp and has a lot of experience, knowledge and really nice material.

According to google maps he's just an hour driving away.
I might just do that if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[Zach Smith]

It's an oak, those leaves you see are from other plants.
I'll certainly be on the lookout for other, better suitable trees. Thanks.

The first thing I thought was box elder, then ash. Neither is really suitable for bonsai, except in the ash genus the Chinese ash is a good subject.

 

[Fonz]

Ok so I went ahead and collected 2 different trees than I mentioned before.
I got a 2" nice looking trunk base and a 3" that looks more common. Next spring, may or so, I'll probably do a first trunk chop on them.

I sure hope the 2" trunk tree survives because when I collected it all the soil around the roots just fell off and I was left with some very poor looking roots. The other one had a good rootball.

 

[Giga]

Good luck, just carefull overwatering with that potting soil

 

[Fonz]

Good luck, just carefull overwatering with that potting soil

I was planning to keep that soil wet for the first week so the roots could recover a bit. If they survive they'll be put in bonsai soil next year the same time the chop is made.
At least that's the idea, if anyone has a better idea please let me know