Fishtank307

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Last week I purchased this Scots pine. It was collected last spring in France. It's in good health, loads of buds popping up, even in the interior of the canopy. What attracted me was the nice movement in the base, deadwood and the long, elegant trunk. There are a lot of finer branches to work with.

This is my preferred front:
IMG_20191001_135547.jpg
I'd like to tilt it a bit more to the left to create a more dramatic effect. The lowest branch could make a nice feature, accentuating the movement of the whole tree.

I was wondering if there are guidelines concerning the direction in which bonsai should be styled. Almost all of my slanting style trees move from left to right...

IMG_20191001_135610.jpg

IMG_20191001_135626.jpg


IMG_20191001_135636.jpg
This could also work as a front, but then I'd have to bend the lowest branch behind the main trunk. So I'll probably go with the other front.

IMG_20191001_135712.jpg

IMG_20191001_135730.jpg

The base of the proposed front:
IMG_20191001_135750.jpg

IMG_20191001_135800.jpg

IMG_20191001_135814.jpg

Small needles and lots of buds:
IMG_20191001_140110.jpg

Styling will probably be done next year. First I'll let it recover and maybe keep the foliage a bit in check.
 

DirkvanDreven

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Great find, with really aged bark. Movement of a tree from left to right looks natural to us, western people as we write from left to right. Mirror a picture of the tree that moves from left to right and you see a totally different tree!
Btw, are you sure it''s Sylvestris? Buds and bark could be Mugo as wel?
 

Fishtank307

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Great find, with really aged bark. Movement of a tree from left to right looks natural to us, western people as we write from left to right. Mirror a picture of the tree that moves from left to right and you see a totally different tree!
Btw, are you sure it''s Sylvestris? Buds and bark could be Mugo as wel?
I was thinking the same thing about movement. Somehow it's difficult for me to envision a bonsai moving from right to left...

Now that you mention it, I'm not entirely sure it's Pinus sylvestris... Maybe @Vance Wood could shed some light on it. (I'm almost embarrassed to ask...)

I find it very difficult to see any difference between fenotypes of P. mugo and P. sylvestris, to be honest. P. sylvestris that grows here in Belgium doesn't look like sylvestris that grows in the French Alps at all. Especially when it comes to needle size. I honestly can't tell the difference between a nursery-grown mugo and a yamadori sylvestris. And whenever I ask something about that at our bonsai club or at an exhibition, I get mixed answers. Does anybody have a definitive answer?
 

Potawatomi13

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I was wondering if there are guidelines concerning the direction in which bonsai should be styled. Almost all of my slanting style trees move from left to right...

Not that I ever heard. Personally style however best trunk/best features are displayed. Trunk takes first precedent to most. Believe this is how normally done.


Love the low hanging branch on Rt of first picture. Is a great feature. Personally could see this as defining branch with some development on my tree. Have one somewhat similar on personal Bristlecone pine;).
 
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clem

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hello, for me the bark and the orange buds are those of a pinus sylvestris. The needles are very short because it probably lived in a very poor & dry soil ^^

ps : looking at the pic with buds, it looks like this pine didn't really grow this spring : the candles are very short with no needles .. but the new buds for next year are good.
 

Vance Wood

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I was thinking the same thing about movement. Somehow it's difficult for me to envision a bonsai moving from right to left...

Now that you mention it, I'm not entirely sure it's Pinus sylvestris... Maybe @Vance Wood could shed some light on it. (I'm almost embarrassed to ask...)

I find it very difficult to see any difference between fenotypes of P. mugo and P. sylvestris, to be honest. P. sylvestris that grows here in Belgium doesn't look like sylvestris that grows in the French Alps at all. Especially when it comes to needle size. I honestly can't tell the difference between a nursery-grown mugo and a yamadori sylvestris. And whenever I ask something about that at our bonsai club or at an exhibition, I get mixed answers. Does anybody have a definitive answer?
Looks like Scots Pine to me. They exist in a multitude of cultivars and varieties. Usually the Scots has very sharp and stiff needles and differing degrees of exfoliating bark. It is also possible that it could be a Mugo-Scots hybrid.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I like the slanting style you image in the first image. and or its back side. THe other images are not the best advantage.

Look at images of Krumholz conifers near the tree line of mountains. With little work, this tree could look like a Krumholz pine.
 

Adair M

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I was thinking the same thing about movement. Somehow it's difficult for me to envision a bonsai moving from right to left...

Now that you mention it, I'm not entirely sure it's Pinus sylvestris... Maybe @Vance Wood could shed some light on it. (I'm almost embarrassed to ask...)

I find it very difficult to see any difference between fenotypes of P. mugo and P. sylvestris, to be honest. P. sylvestris that grows here in Belgium doesn't look like sylvestris that grows in the French Alps at all. Especially when it comes to needle size. I honestly can't tell the difference between a nursery-grown mugo and a yamadori sylvestris. And whenever I ask something about that at our bonsai club or at an exhibition, I get mixed answers. Does anybody have a definitive answer?
Here is a JWP that moves right to left:

A5E8BE6A-7D71-4055-9FB4-088440BC662E.jpeg

But, at some time in the future, I will probably change the front to this:

EDC0146C-AB51-42E2-A941-DFE35D33ED66.jpeg
 

Fishtank307

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I like the slanting style you image in the first image. and or its back side. THe other images are not the best advantage.

Look at images of Krumholz conifers near the tree line of mountains. With little work, this tree could look like a Krumholz pine.

Yes, slanting to the right would be the best option for this tree. Best branch placement, best movement in the base! Also, the dead branches would be more in the back of the design.

I have this image in mind of a tree with a very open structure, not so well defined pads. Sort of like this multi trunk white pine. (I can't really find any better examples right now, maybe I should browse my magazines in stead of the internet)
20151121-730-taikanten-S.jpg
(https://bonsaitonight.com/2015/12/29/genko-kai-exhibit-at-hoshun-in/)

I think with this kind of material (Long, thin trunk, aged bark, almost windswept), an open structure works well. Some of the krummholz pine that I saw online are really interesting! They have a nice windswept feel to them, that I also see in my tree. Thanks!
 

Fishtank307

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Here is a JWP that moves right to left:

View attachment 265476

But, at some time in the future, I will probably change the front to this:

View attachment 265477
Thanks for sharing, Adair. I really like the second front. It looks more balanced, with the second branch following the movement of the trunk. Very nice tree! Beautifull pot as well.
 

sorce

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irection in which bonsai should be styled.

@Potawatomi13 is correct that the direction should be dictated by the best base of the trunk.

What if both are equal?

The next logical thing is to make it different than that of what you have.

At a show, the table end is capped with a tree that moves toward the center, as to not let the eye wander off the end of the table. A book end if you will.

What direction does your club/show need trees to go in?

Remember, the final final is final display.

This thing isn't always about self.

Sorce
 

sorce

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This is a good representation of the difference between selfish and super selfish.

The selfish make the tree they want. Bad.

The super selfish make a tree that goes both ways to have twice more likelihood to get their tree displayed. Good.

Sorce
 

sorce

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Speaking of table ends....

I wonder how much your display table there may be affecting you decision.

his is my preferred front:
IMG_20191001_135547.jpg

Your table dictates leftward movement will be better, since their is a bookend on the right already.

Capture+_2019-10-09-07-05-14.png

This creates the "circle" or "closed form" we were chatting about in that other thread...
The tree, table, and bookend right.

So this way looks OFF to the human eye.

Sorce
 

Fishtank307

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Speaking of table ends....

I wonder how much your display table there may be affecting you decision.


View attachment 266012

Your table dictates leftward movement will be better, since their is a bookend on the right already.

View attachment 266013

This creates the "circle" or "closed form" we were chatting about in that other thread...
The tree, table, and bookend right.

So this way looks OFF to the human eye.

Sorce
I took some time of, busy at work! So my response is a bit delayed..
I think you're right about the way this tree is presented. It's pointing to the lamp, which acts as a 'bookend', stopping your eye from moving further. I always place my bonsai on that spot, so maybe that's the reason why a bonsai moving from left to right looks better to me! Thanks for pointing that out, Sorce!
 

Fishtank307

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In October of last year, I gave this tree its first 'basic' styling. I pruned some branches, but still left alot of options for a more detailed styling. I only wired the primary branches. I went with the first front, in a slanting / sort of windswept style.
The tree responded well (knock on wood). There are a lot of buds on older wood and now it's ready for spring!

More than enough branches left.
20210406_130505.jpg

I wasn't sure what to do with the little branch (red circle) on the far right. Either I'd jin it, or use it to cover up the mess of crossing trunks and branches (green circle).
optie.jpg

So for now, I wired it and moved it more toward the left. It looks a bit contrived at the moment, but I think it's partly because it fills up negative space. If I use the little branch to cover the trunks, I'll move the other branch in that area (the one that I'm holding in the picture below).


20210406_143802.jpg

(It looks less messy in person, I swear!)
20210406_143751.jpg

View from above, right hand side;
20210406_143827.jpg

20210406_145656.jpg
20210406_145705.jpg

It was dug from the mountains only two years ago, so I really don't want to rush things with this tree... Slow and steady wins the race. I hope it recovers well from this first basic styling.
 

roberthu

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Does Scots pine bud back easily? I see some on the trunk and the barks look quite old.
 

Fishtank307

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Does Scots pine bud back easily? I see some on the trunk and the barks look quite old.
They back bud fairly well, given the tree is healthy and receives enough fert and sunlight. Wiring also helps. They tend to throw buds in the outsides of bends.
The backbuds on this one are mostly on secondary branches though, not on the the trunk.
 

roberthu

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They back bud fairly well, given the tree is healthy and receives enough fert and sunlight. Wiring also helps. They tend to throw buds in the outsides of bends.
The backbuds on this one are mostly on secondary branches though, not on the the trunk.
Good to know. I have a few seedlings growing like a stick and I was worried that they would not back bud.
 

leatherback

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Good to know. I have a few seedlings growing like a stick and I was worried that they would not back bud.
They backbud well FOR A PINE. So.. When growing out, it is still best to preserve some small branches in places where you later want them. Or learn grafting.
 

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