Yellow, Veiny Leaves on Monkey Pod

[Lumaca]

I have a bunch of monkey pod trees (Samanea Saman) from collected seeds. Recently, their leaves have been turning yellow with green veins, and eventually drop.

I kept half in a mix of 50% peat and 50% lava, and some in 25% peat and 75% lava, watered them once a day with very light fertilizing once a week (20-20-20). All are exhibiting the same symptoms so I don't think overwatering is a problem (in fact the 75% lava seems to suffer when I try watering it less).

My first thought was N deficiency, which would be odd since these plants are supposed to add N to the soil level. There's not much info about growing these in containers, but over here they grow like weed. Maybe anyone can identify then issue from the leaves?

 

[LittleDingus]

I have a bunch of monkey pod trees (Samanea Saman) from collected seeds. Recently, their leaves have been turning yellow with green veins, and eventually drop.

I kept half in a mix of 50% peat and 50% lava, and some in 25% peat and 75% lava, watered them once a day with very light fertilizing once a week (20-20-20). All are exhibiting the same symptoms so I don't think overwatering is a problem (in fact the 75% lava seems to suffer when I try watering it less).

My first thought was N deficiency, which would be odd since these plants are supposed to add N to the soil level. There's not much info about growing these in containers, but over here they grow like weed. Maybe anyone can identify then issue from the leaves?

View attachment 329236

First thing I would check for is mites.

The second thing I would check for is that the fertilizer you are using contains trace minerals (manganese, magnesium, iron, etc...) Some don't and there wont be much/any in inorganic soils.

But mites would be my first fear...and the harder one to deal with

 

[sorce]

Lol! I was thinking you have to water more than once a day since I do, checked your profile and it says....

THE EQUATOR!

Water More!

Sorce

 

[Lumaca]

First thing I would check for is mites.

The second thing I would check for is that the fertilizer you are using contains trace minerals (manganese, magnesium, iron, etc...) Some don't and there wont be much/any in inorganic soils.

But mites would be my first fear...and the harder one to deal with

I have double and triple checked them for mites and couldn't find any. I even tried a few "control" trees (the seeds are VERY easy to come by and grow fast) in a different spot and found the leaf damage there as well.

I think I will follow the adding nutrition route, maybe with some organic fert.

Lol! I was thinking you have to water more than once a day since I do, checked your profile and it says....

THE EQUATOR!

Water More!

Sorce

Yes, I have learned the hard way that my sun requires a LOT of sun and organics in the soil. But we are entering the rainy season here so free water! Just gotta be careful they don't snap/drown.

 

[sorce]

P.s. That's a pretty gross title!

Sorce

 

[Lumaca]

So I'm doing all suggestions. Extra water, extra fertilizer (which I think has all the nutrients needed), AND spraying neem just in case.

P.s. That's a pretty gross title!

Sorce

I guess it's clickbait-y enough to stand out from all the yellow leaves posts..

 

[cmeg1]

Look to be magnesium deficiency.....Are you following bottle directions?
Excess potassium can show as a magnesium deficiency..........or it could be locked up......does your tap have chlorine?

This is either water quality.....ph......or too much .....or too little fertilizer.Not so hard to figure really.........Is this organic phosphate like rock phosphate? or a mineral salt type like monoammonium phosphate or the like.

 

[cmeg1]

This is probably ph....too acidic and magnesium ,calcium and even phospherous are non existant........too alkaline and some become toxically available while some like zinc and other micros are unavailable......be suprised at some of the important nutrient ion chemical reactions that actually need a zinc or manganese cofactor? To initiate this balance of nutrient availability and assimilation........lava & peat is EXTREMELY INERT.
Once a week fertilizer may not make the grade ESPECIALLY when most nutrients are not even available from wack ph.
At any rate see if tour tap is chlorinated
Get a cheapo tds
Get a cheapo ph meter
Let me know,I can help figure this out

 

[cmeg1]

Using Tap Water For Hydroponics - Trees.com

Even tap water that is recognized as safe for drinking contains varying levels of chemicals and dissolved minerals. Is it safe to use this water in hydroponics? Let's answer that question in some detail.

www.greenandvibrant.com

I have a really small ro filter.........yes my water bill has went up.....I only use about 3 gallons a day though....oh well got that pure water!!

micRO-75™ Reverse Osmosis System

An economical, entry level, micro-sized, portable reverse osmosis system, 75 gallons per day solution. Includes KDF/carbon pre-filter and 75 GPD membrane. Also comes with garden hose connector, ¼" shut off valve, and pressure gauge. Features 2:1 drain to product water ratio for maximum efficiency.

www.hydrologicsystems.com

Cannot really avoid these reperations.....something is wrong that needs fixed if you want to grow some trees

 

[sorce]

I wouldn't use Neem regularly.

Just because it's "organic" or whatever, it's still not "safe".

cmeg1 got you.

I think it's variegated!

Sorce

 

[hinmo24t]

I guess it's clickbait-y enough to stand out from all the yellow leaves posts..

well played

 

[hinmo24t]

P.s. That's a pretty gross title!

Sorce

got a few of them myself

 

[Lumaca]

This is probably ph....too acidic and magnesium ,calcium and even phospherous are non existant........too alkaline and some become toxically available while some like zinc and other micros are unavailable......be suprised at some of the important nutrient ion chemical reactions that actually need a zinc or manganese cofactor? To initiate this balance of nutrient availability and assimilation........lava & peat is EXTREMELY INERT.
Once a week fertilizer may not make the grade ESPECIALLY when most nutrients are not even available from wack ph.
At any rate see if tour tap is chlorinated
Get a cheapo tds
Get a cheapo ph meter
Let me know,I can help figure this out

Wow, that's a lot to process. I guess my first step is the PH meter to take the guess work out. I can confidently say that my water is not chlorinated since i use well water for the plants. I'll seek your knowledge after I have soil readings!

I wouldn't use Neem regularly.

Just because it's "organic" or whatever, it's still not "safe".

cmeg1 got you☝.

I think it's variegated!

Sorce

I was thinking weekly, hopefully it won't be too harsh?

Oh, and there is a "yellow" variety of this plant but I have never encountered any seedling or tree here so probably not.

 

[cmeg1]

Wow, that's a lot to process. I guess my first step is the PH meter to take the guess work out. I can confidently say that my water is not chlorinated since i use well water for the plants. I'll seek your knowledge after I have soil readings!




I was thinking weekly, hopefully it won't be too harsh?

Oh, and there is a "yellow" variety of this plant but I have never encountered any seedling or tree here so probably not.

Cool well water ...no chlorine
Yea,get a cheap ph and also a tds meter just to see what the ppm of your well water is too.

 

[sorce]

was thinking weekly, hopefully it won't be too harsh

It's kinda like is lathering up in SPF 40 everyday forever cuz we went to the beach once.

I bought neem Oil, used it once, forgot why and never used it again. Never needed it again. And it may have contributed to a kill.

Good husbandry, appropriate positioning, more folaige, more water and less winter protection is all you need!

Spraying Neem (or anything but fert) weekly will have you chasing gremlins forever, and it's like telling yourself you will never get anything right.

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I don't think pH is the issue. Or even if it is, the rainy season is coming, you won't be using the well water that often. I would just work on fertilizer. The Grow More label you displayed is a 20-20-20 with a good micronutrients profile. BUT, it is low in calcium and magnesium.
Plants need almost the same amount of calcium as nitrogen, and about 25% of the nitrogen level should be magnesium.
Your well water probably has all the calcium you need, but I think you have classic magnesium deficiency. One simple cure is Epsom salts, sold at pharmacies for human use. Epsom salts are Magnesium Sulfate. Use roughly 15 milliliters volume per 4 liters of water. Water with with this solution once every two weeks until new foliage comes out normal green. Then use Epsom salts once every three months, as routine prevention. Increase frequently if chlorosis reoccurs.

I never had a chance to visit Indonesia, but I did visit Singapore once in 1996. I did get to have gado-gado for dinner in Singapore. It's a good food memory. There was an Indonesian restaurant in Chicago for a few years, I'd visit occasionally, but they closed some 10 years ago. I should see if a new restaurant has opened up.

It's good to have members here from Indonesia. Are you anywhere near where Robert Stevens has his bonsai studio? If you are, you should be certain to visit just for artistic inspiration.

 

[Lumaca]

It's kinda like is lathering up in SPF 40 everyday forever cuz we went to the beach once.

I bought neem Oil, used it once, forgot why and never used it again. Never needed it again. And it may have contributed to a kill.

Good husbandry, appropriate positioning, more folaige, more water and less winter protection is all you need!

Spraying Neem (or anything but fert) weekly will have you chasing gremlins forever, and it's like telling yourself you will never get anything right.

Sorce

I do know some ladies who do the sunblock thing religiously, but then again I do live in a tropical island.

Could you explain the steps you take? Spider mites is the one thing plaguing all my plants, from indoor houseplants to vegetables to herbs, so I am always on the lookout. Neem helped on my rosemaries. I was even thinking of just growing neem trees just to piss off the mites.

I don't think pH is the issue. Or even if it is, the rainy season is coming, you won't be using the well water that often. I would just work on fertilizer. The Grow More label you displayed is a 20-20-20 with a good micronutrients profile. BUT, it is low in calcium and magnesium.
Plants need almost the same amount of calcium as nitrogen, and about 25% of the nitrogen level should be magnesium.
Your well water probably has all the calcium you need, but I think you have classic magnesium deficiency. One simple cure is Epsom salts, sold at pharmacies for human use. Epsom salts are Magnesium Sulfate. Use roughly 15 milliliters volume per 4 liters of water. Water with with this solution once every two weeks until new foliage comes out normal green. Then use Epsom salts once every three months, as routine prevention. Increase frequently if chlorosis reoccurs.

I never had a chance to visit Indonesia, but I did visit Singapore once in 1996. I did get to have gado-gado for dinner in Singapore. It's a good food memory. There was an Indonesian restaurant in Chicago for a few years, I'd visit occasionally, but they closed some 10 years ago. I should see if a new restaurant has opened up.

It's good to have members here from Indonesia. Are you anywhere near where Robert Stevens has his bonsai studio? If you are, you should be certain to visit just for artistic inspiration.

Too much nitrogen sounds possible since this is technically a legume. I treat all my trees the same and this is the only one showing distress. I got the ph and tds meter @cmeg1 so will test as soon as the rain stops.

Hahaha Indonesian food never became "cool" like thai or vietnamese. I think it's because we're too busy arguing about it amongst ourselves instead of promoting it.

Robert Steven is half an hour away from my place which would be a nice trip for the future (we're in the SECOND lockdown and I don't think it's doing any good). I don't think I'm at the level where I would be able to appreciate his trees yet, so I guess I'd just go there to be wowed.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I use Epson Salts in equal volume with one Miracle Grow scoop when I fertilize.

 

[sorce]

Could you explain the steps you take? Spider mites

I've changed quite a few things that all add up to less pests IMO.

I think not enough water is what invites pests simply because the tissue is softer.
So I water more.

Chemical Fertilizer is said to create vulnerable Growth too, so I only use fish.

And not killing the predator mites.

I'm pretty big on burning aphids, I don't think it helps, but it may!

Sorce

 

[Firstflush]

Only seedlings and you are fertilizing once a week. I would say you are using too much. They are babies. If you have a several, as a control, back off the fert on a plant or two and see what happens.

Regarding neem, I love it. Need to use an emulsifier like a mild soap to keep it mixed up....otherwise if you use a sprayer without soap, large concentrated globules land on the leaves and burn. Also, spray out of direct sun in the evening. In the evening, the beneficials are out of the way too. Pure cold pressed neem is what you should use, not pre-made, where the ingredient label says “hydrophobic extract”.