Yellowing Hinoki

coltranem

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I decided to give this question it's own thread so forgive me for the repeat.

A little over a week ago I noticed some orange parts where the green growth was browning.

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I wasn't sure what was going on so I hit it with some Daconil.

Two days ago I started noticing some of the growth yellowing. Is this a fungus? Overwatering? Or just part of the natural browning of older foliage?

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Warpig

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Im sorry I cant help out but I am pinning and bumping this. Hopefully we can both learn from it.
 

coh

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This is the time of year that Hinokis shed old foliage (usually interior/shaded) that the plant has "decided it no longer needs". One of mine is going through the same thing. The problem is that once that interior growth is shed, it's very difficult to get it back.
 

AJL

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Could it be pot bound and lacking nutrients?Also there appear to be what looks white scale on some of the foliage though I cant be sure as its not clear in the photos .If its got Juniper scale insect you will get yellowing of infested shoots
 

coltranem

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The tree was repotted this spring right before I purchased it. Its growth has been moderate so I don't think it is pot bound. I will look more closely for scale.
 

Forsoothe!

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You seem to be expecting that foliage is forever and bulletproof, not subject to the occasional bug, disease or damage from wind or animals or just plain having a poorer position in the sun than other parts and thus shed as less efficient. While it is important to stay on top of things and notice when things go wrong, you should expect some continuous loss, too. Any judgements you make on problem areas need to also consider the general health of the rest of the tree, at that time.

It's always dangerous to generalize, especially here where trolls come out of the woodwork with exceptions, but generally you can expect older, inner foliage will be shed over time and as long as the foliage turning color is closer to the trunk than the green foliage on a branch or twig, it's probably pretty normal. Especially during the autumn when trees are experiencing lower light intensity, shorter photo-period, lowering temperatures, lowering moisture levels, etc., and all the conditions that accompany the trees going into dormancy, the tree sheds less efficient leaf surfaces, at this time. If this was May or June when you'd expect to see bright green growth at every tip, the same appearance might be alarming, but not now in October. Pick it off.

Hinokis are notorious for not back-budding. It's not a variety or species thing, it's an individual thing. If you have one that does back-bud, thank your lucky stars. If not, get used to it and be very careful keeping the style open enough to nurture inner foliage.
 

coh

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Whether you have scale or not, these trees will shed older foliage in the fall. The question is, how to prevent or control that?

In my case, I bought a nice sized hinoki at the National show last September (2018). The tree had been dug/collected in the spring, but looked very healthy and vigorous. I was advised to not do much to it since it was recently collected, so my plan was to just let it be and then either repot or cut back this spring. Then I watched in horror as about a month later (October) a massive amount of the older and interior growth - growth that I was counting on being able to use to build a design - turned yellow and dropped off. I don't know if it was something I did - maybe the tree dried out too much at some point, maybe it should have been cut back sooner - still trying to figure that out.

I did speak to the grower and he said this variety (can't recall which one) will backbud well compared to others, so he recommended wiring out the main branches to allow more light inside. I did that and contemplated repotting or cutting back the existing growth, but chose to do neither. I didn't get any backbudding and now I'm getting another round of fall yellowing (which will lead to foliage dropping) which will push the existing growth even further away from the trunk. So I think I'm going to do a slip-pot to give the roots a little more room to expand, then probably do a hard cut-back next summer and cross my fingers. The other option would be to try grafting foliage further back on those bare branches, but I haven't done much grafting so that might be hit and miss.

I know Sergio (@MACH5 ) bought a similar hinoki from the same person, and I know he mentioned also losing a bunch of inner growth, but I'm not sure what happened after that. Any updates, Sergio?
 

coltranem

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You seem to be expecting that foliage is forever and bulletproof, not subject to the occasional bug, disease or damage from wind or animals or just plain having a poorer position in the sun than other parts and thus shed as less efficient. While it is important to stay on top of things and notice when things go wrong, you should expect some continuous loss, too. Any judgements you make on problem areas need to also consider the general health of the rest of the tree, at that time.

It's always dangerous to generalize, especially here where trolls come out of the woodwork with exceptions, but generally you can expect older, inner foliage will be shed over time and as long as the foliage turning color is closer to the trunk than the green foliage on a branch or twig, it's probably pretty normal. Especially during the autumn when trees are experiencing lower light intensity, shorter photo-period, lowering temperatures, lowering moisture levels, etc., and all the conditions that accompany the trees going into dormancy, the tree sheds less efficient leaf surfaces, at this time. If this was May or June when you'd expect to see bright green growth at every tip, the same appearance might be alarming, but not now in October. Pick it off.
I am not panicking here I am just asking a question as to whether this was normal loss which I expected but did not really know how it manifested it self since this is my first hinoki.
 

penumbra

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If that is a tiny bit of scale, and I am not convinced it is, it is not enough to cause the defoliation you are showing which looks completely natural and seasonal to me.
 

coltranem

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Ok...these to scrape off with my nail but maybe not a full blown infestation. I will remove what I can manually to be on the safe side and wait and see.
 

Forsoothe!

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I don't see anything. Circle it or draw an arrow at it.
 

coltranem

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I ended up following @Vance Wood methods from a search of this site. I hit it with a spray of soap, oil, and rubbing alcohol mixed with water. Prior I removed what I could manually. Now we wait.
 

MACH5

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Whether you have scale or not, these trees will shed older foliage in the fall. The question is, how to prevent or control that?

In my case, I bought a nice sized hinoki at the National show last September (2018). The tree had been dug/collected in the spring, but looked very healthy and vigorous. I was advised to not do much to it since it was recently collected, so my plan was to just let it be and then either repot or cut back this spring. Then I watched in horror as about a month later (October) a massive amount of the older and interior growth - growth that I was counting on being able to use to build a design - turned yellow and dropped off. I don't know if it was something I did - maybe the tree dried out too much at some point, maybe it should have been cut back sooner - still trying to figure that out.

I did speak to the grower and he said this variety (can't recall which one) will backbud well compared to others, so he recommended wiring out the main branches to allow more light inside. I did that and contemplated repotting or cutting back the existing growth, but chose to do neither. I didn't get any backbudding and now I'm getting another round of fall yellowing (which will lead to foliage dropping) which will push the existing growth even further away from the trunk. So I think I'm going to do a slip-pot to give the roots a little more room to expand, then probably do a hard cut-back next summer and cross my fingers. The other option would be to try grafting foliage further back on those bare branches, but I haven't done much grafting so that might be hit and miss.

I know Sergio (@MACH5 ) bought a similar hinoki from the same person, and I know he mentioned also losing a bunch of inner growth, but I'm not sure what happened after that. Any updates, Sergio?


Chris, unfortunately that tree died on me. I was surprised as I have styled other hinokis from other sources with no issues. The ones from the same place that you got yours from seem to resent heavy styling work. I have another from the same batch that I am approaching very gradually and seems to be responding much better. Not sure if they are a specific cultivar that require a different approach? Learning as I go!
 
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