Yes it's a Pine. But What Kind?!

[Chris Johnston]

So I guess my next question is: Is is too late in the season (Central Florida) to lift it from the ground? (Remember it has only been there for one season. And, hardly any root work was done prior to it being planted. It was pretty much lifted from the nursery can and placed in the ground.) I have already worked on my other pines around Super Bowl weekend (this was the prime time for my area, or so I was told).

Graydon, what do you think?

Chris

 

[TheSteve]

I know I wasn't asked but here's my two cents: You took it straight out of a nursery can and plopped it in a hole. It's gonna take more than a year to get that baby rolling if you didn't at least massage the rootball and get it loosened up. Take a shot a few inches wider than the rootball was last year and it'll never know it's been moved.

 

[Dav4]

Playing devil's advocate, I would say that lifting the tree at this time of year is useless in that you can't do any meaningful root-work (assuming the best time for this was 2 months or more ago). Why not start working the foliage/branches while it is in ground this year, and lift it and start working the roots/getting it into a good soil mix this coming winter. By the way, I like the bark and trunk movement of this tree. Any way you could get some pics of the tree from different angles with a solid background? Good luck,

dave

 

[Chris Johnston]

Playing devil's advocate, I would say that lifting the tree at this time of year is useless in that you can't do any meaningful root-work (assuming the best time for this was 2 months or more ago). Why not start working the foliage/branches while it is in ground this year, and lift it and start working the roots/getting it into a good soil mix this coming winter. By the way, I like the bark and trunk movement of this tree. Any way you could get some pics of the tree from different angles with a solid background? Good luck,

dave

As I do not live in Florida, please take this comment under advisement. The longer the growing season, the greater effect will be had by planting a tree in the ground. I believe that leaving this tree in the ground for a full year in the long growing season down there could be very bad for the tree, inasmuch as the top growth will be extremely strong. If you can put it in a grow box without bothering the roots too much, I think you will do better.

However, I would love to have a Floridian weigh in on that aspect of this one.

Chris

 

[Dav4]

I agree in that I also don't live in Florida and can't comment from experience on the effect on their climate in JBP growth. I would think that candle removal/needle thinning while in the ground would reduce vigor enough to forstall any significant change in the trunk over this growing season, with the added benefit of advancing the development of the canopy. As Graydon mentioned, you can shovel prune the roots this year as well. I guess I don't see any benefit to do things here out of season.

Dave

 

[cquinn]

I would also suggest that you seek out the closest bonsai professional or experienced teacher and have them work this tree with you. You will be kicking yourself seriously in a few years after you have gained more insight and understand how good this material is for literati. A black pine of that size, trained with needles reduced, would have the potential of being a comma tree in about 5 to 10 yrs. I believe it would go for hundreds now at a bonsai nursery. $300 + easy.

 

[Graydon]

When I asked Dave DeGroot about the best time to work on JBP roots in Florida his response was "just before the candles begin to extend". I have noticed on my in ground pines that the candles begin to swell well in advance of the actual extension and then unfurling of the needles. The time from swelling (and leeching of sap) to the actual extension seems to be a bit less on my JPB in pots.

His reason for the answer was that the cycle of activity for JBP roots is or should be nearly in sync or just in advance with the candle extension. In the discussion I asked about severe root reduction like I have seen in photos from Japanese bonsai books where these advanced trees seems to be nearly stripped bald below the soil line and are stuffed in a pot, tied in with sticks and twine and covered in soil. I have always been amazed at how they seem to generate a massive root structure in just a few years all while the tree continues to live and look well. I have yet to lose a tree or a branch or a candle and I can hack a pine below the soil line with the best of them. Hell - I have always based all of my ideas on how to work on JBP just from those Japanese photos alone. Dave led me to really believe that timing is the key and that by not being able to read the article I was missing the nuances being explained such as the timing.

So the short answer is if you can tell as to the status of the candles and you feel good about that they still have some time before they are fully extended and open get a shovel and dig it up. If not just wait until the dog days of August and try it then as that's a dormant period here. Or wait until next winter.

One year in the ground is not enough time to get fully established and growing full tilt.

 

[milehigh_7]

Ryan,


It's kind of a Buddhist thing here. Don't try to have what you want with this tree, try to want what you have.


What do you think?

Chris

Chris, I think this is some of the best bonsai advice for any tree that I have heard. On a couple of my trees I have just cost myself several years because I decided to try to make it what I wanted and not what the tree wanted to be. I really hosed it up good. Now if it ever recovers it will be a long time and it may not happen at all. Lessons learned.

 

[mapleman77]

Any updates on this tree Ryan?

 

[R_F]

Any updates on this tree Ryan?

So far...nothin. Still in the ground and growing. I'll probably post an update next season. Thanks for asking though.