Yet Another Indoor Maple Question.

Servillius

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Hey guys,

I’m new here and new to bonsai. I’m an experienced gardener however and I have over 30 years experience with large reef aquariums which I think is relevant in terms of my question, or at least I hope it is.

So I don’t really know what I’m doing, but I’m hoping as I learn I have a skill set I can fall back on to speed up the process.

Here’s the question. Can I grow Japanese maples indoors (okay, and crabapples, and some other stuff). I live in Houston and I can keep one or two happy in the garden but for most of them it’s just too hot and humid around here.

Now I’ve searched, and clearly the answer if I’m just sticking them in a window is no, no chance, heck no.

But I’ve spent a long time building artificial environments for things to live in and on the good days, they’ve been rather successful. So my question is exactly what do I have to replicate to make this work? Lightning is easy enough, I probably have the lights in my garage and I can get all the way up to full midday sun which would probably be too much. I can either use a fridge, or get fancy and use chillers and humidifiers for winter, and controllers to mimic the cycles.

But I have no idea what cycles to mimic! I know I need winter chill, but how do I figure out how much? Or a good lighting estimate? What don’t I know that I’ll need to replicate? Will I need to vary summer temps or is 75 good enough? Does there need to be a difference between day and night temp? If so, how much? How long do winter nights need to be? How the heck do I find all this out?
 

Servillius

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Oh here’s another one. What temperature should I measure? Is it the ground temp that determines the plants chill state? The air temp?
 

Bnana

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I think Japanese maples would be fine outside in winter. Summer is very hot but inside with lights is possible.
But why do you want these species? There are other species that are just as good for bonsai that are suitable for your region.
 

leatherback

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Servillius

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I think Japanese maples would be fine outside in winter. Summer is very hot but inside with lights is possible.
But why do you want these species? There are other species that are just as good for bonsai that are suitable for your region.
So I could offer some convincing sounding answers that are part true, like I enjoy the species or that I like their look inside, but the truth is I'm kind of just crazy and enjoy the challenge of building this sort of unlikely environment! If I could find a way to convince angelfish to swim around my living room I'd do it!
 

sorce

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Just use a shade cloth in the coolest part of your yard and mist, or keep a pond or something, wet things.

Welcome to Crazy!

It'll be easier to change outdoors than Indoors. Since changing indoors is just recreating most of what is outdoors.

#shadecloth #noblackwalls

Sorce
 

Mike Corazzi

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I figure if I can move Lake Tahoe to my back yard, maples might have a chance.
But no guarantees. :confused:
 

Forsoothe!

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If you go to the upper right hand corner and click on your Icon, you can add your location and people will be able to customize advice for you.

Houston is infamous for humidity. We have lots of Houstonians that should be able to tell you that outdoors in bright shade should be alright. Maybe they will not look as good at the end of summer, but who cares at that time of year? Probably need a more organic media to retain moisture, too.
 

Kanorin

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As far as Japanese Maples, depending on the cultivar, there is variation in how much sun ( and probably heat) they can take. Generally the green leaf varieties handle sun a little better. In my climate, where most days mid June through early September are 85-100 degrees, JMs do ok as long as they have some shade and enough moisture retention in the media.
 

Servillius

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If you go to the upper right hand corner and click on your Icon, you can add your location and people will be able to customize advice for you.

Houston is infamous for humidity. We have lots of Houstonians that should be able to tell you that outdoors in bright shade should be alright. Maybe they will not look as good at the end of summer, but who cares at that time of year? Probably need a more organic media to retain moisture, too.
Done, thanks.

I actually have two japanese maples growing outside. They're definitely a pain, but doable. It's the challenge of figuring out how to make this happen indoors that I'm really curious about.
 

Forsoothe!

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It's not the summer heat that is a problem with JM, it's drying hot winds of summer and/or lack of enough winter chill. A cellar might be helpful in winter, such as it is there. I would use a systemic fungicide preemptively.
 

Mike Corazzi

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It's not the summer heat that is a problem with JM, it's drying hot winds of summer and/or lack of enough winter chill. A cellar might be helpful in winter, such as it is there. I would use a systemic fungicide preemptively.
yes,

WIND !!!

:eek:
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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You are suffering a bad case of "Climate Zone Envy". Main symptom is the desire to grow species of plants you can not possibly grow well in your environment. There is no cure. It is a terminal disease. The disease will run its course, and only abate after the death of many trees, for example, Japanese maples indoors, or outdoors in Houston.

Seriously. Explore more with what will grow in your hot and humid climate. For indoors, there is an endless array of sub-tropical and tropical trees that you can explore. With modern advanced lighting and the skills you already have from aquariums & reef tanks, there are very few tropicals that you could not grow.

Seriously, look into tropicals. Try your hand at Nashia inaguensis, many have trouble with them, their nick name is "I Dry, I Die". The fragrant foliage is an olfactory delight, and the flowers have a different fragrance, flowers are vanilla scented. Look into Grewia. Lovely flowers. If you are interested in a sun loving, warm blooded, needs high humidity, try Ixora. There are many tropicals beyond the mundane Ficus.

Look into Bursera, and Boswellia, these fat trunk Pachycauls make exotic "windowsill bonsai". Some of the pachycaul and caudiciform trees of the deserts are fascinating, and make gnarly specimens, and there are some real rarities that can excite the collector of the obscure.
 

Paradox

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@markyscott is in Texas and can give you good advice on what is possible there with maples outdoors.

As for indoors, what are you willing to spend to try and make it happen? Seems like too much aggravation for too little chance at success IMO.
 

markyscott

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Hey guys,

I’m new here and new to bonsai. I’m an experienced gardener however and I have over 30 years experience with large reef aquariums which I think is relevant in terms of my question, or at least I hope it is.

So I don’t really know what I’m doing, but I’m hoping as I learn I have a skill set I can fall back on to speed up the process.

Here’s the question. Can I grow Japanese maples indoors (okay, and crabapples, and some other stuff). I live in Houston and I can keep one or two happy in the garden but for most of them it’s just too hot and humid around here.

Now I’ve searched, and clearly the answer if I’m just sticking them in a window is no, no chance, heck no.

But I’ve spent a long time building artificial environments for things to live in and on the good days, they’ve been rather successful. So my question is exactly what do I have to replicate to make this work? Lightning is easy enough, I probably have the lights in my garage and I can get all the way up to full midday sun which would probably be too much. I can either use a fridge, or get fancy and use chillers and humidifiers for winter, and controllers to mimic the cycles.

But I have no idea what cycles to mimic! I know I need winter chill, but how do I figure out how much? Or a good lighting estimate? What don’t I know that I’ll need to replicate? Will I need to vary summer temps or is 75 good enough? Does there need to be a difference between day and night temp? If so, how much? How long do winter nights need to be? How the heck do I find all this out?
S -

My advice is to gently encourage you to start with the great variety of trees better adapted for our climate. This hobby is hard enough without trying to create microclimates to nurse along trees that are poorly adapted for these conditions.

sounds like you’re interested in broadleaf deciduous trees. Great ones to start with in Houston are:

1) trident maples
2) cedar elms
3) Chinese elms
4) crape Myrtle

With that disease and insect resistant collection, you’ll get beautiful colors in fall and spring, flowers the whole summer and pretty robust growth throughout the year.

Japanese maples can be grown here. I have several. They look nice in spring, but you won’t see much in the way of fall color. They are more temperamental than tridents and pretty susceptible to fungal problems. I’d stay away from them in the beginning.

If you’re open to broadleaf evergreens, semi deciduous and tropicals, there are loads of options. Consider joining the Houston Bonsai Society. We’re the largest society in Texas and quite active.

scott
 

Trenthany

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Markyscott is right there with you so I would listen to him above almost all others although Houston is big enough that opposite sides of the “Houston” area can have very different microclimates. He will have by far the best advice and I would read his threads for even more info.

That being said, there supposedly is a guy growing Japanese maples in Miami and supposedly bonsai ones. I haven’t searched it but I saw a blog on the internet that mentioned it but I never got back to it. This has me curious again now thanks for sending me down a rabbit hole!

I would also recommend looking at local maples as I found quite a few full size trees in my area with sub 3” and sub 2” leaves in my area. I’m experimenting with some I’ve collected a couple weeks ago now. I’m also about to go layer most of the top off one that has a hollow trunk and is one storm from falling again as it’s broken off before this. My hope is that I can propagate samples of these small leaves maples and that they will make good material in the future.
 

Trenthany

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You have lost and lots of options courtesy of the Unversity of Florida.
680 Tree Fact Sheet, UF
Very true! Not all are suitable for bonsai but I’m going to save that list and look into more of these! I’m taking the first advice I was given and only growing trees that grow or at least can grow near me. I’m always fascinated by people that grow things that don’t and can’t grow in their area. I believe @Cadillactaste has a neagari calamanda (sic) and she gets snow where she is. Those kinds of cases always impress me with dedication it takes to care for a tree like that. @Servillius seems to be interested in the opposite type of attempt and while I don’t know his skills at horticulture I’m interested to see if it’s possible and if so how it turns out.
 

Cadillactaste

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The trees I winter indoors...don't need a dormancy period. Jerry Meislik I believe it was...keeps his kumquat indoors 24/7. I do allow mine to sit longer outside and collect cooler chill temps than my tropical see.

But I'm most proud of my bougainvillea. 2015
FB_IMG_1596335301973.jpg
My collection is rather small...but, enough to bring me enjoyment. 6 bonsai which winter under grow lights and a novelty Dorset Horn Adenium. Which looks like broccoli . Lol

Summer 2020
20200830_090318.jpg
 
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