Young branches of European beech dry up during the overwintering

[proninyaroslav]

In October I bought a European beech from a friend, the tree came to me in the mailbox (in the literal sense ). This is the yamadori he dug up two years ago. In general, the tree looked good and healthy, the only one it was planted in a fairly moisture-absorbing soil (a mixture of compost, river sand and brick chips). I decided to leave the repotting until spring and watered it sparsely enough to prevent overwatering. This is how it looked in October:



I recently noticed that some young branches began to shrivel as if they were drying out. These are mainly the lower branches, the upper ones are still healthy. Curently the tree hibernates in a shelter where the temperature doesn't drop below -1C/30F , so I don't think the frost is to blame. Maybe there are some root problems? Drying of branches on a beech gives me great worries, because I know that beech is very bad on backbudding. I would be grateful for any help and advice.
I took a photo of those places where we can see it most clearly:

 

[Scorpius]

I'm going to say there's issues with the roots. What kind of soil is it planted in?

 

[proninyaroslav]

What kind of soil is it planted in?

He uses sphagnum moss peat, coarse river sand and crumbled red bricks for his trees. The mixture is quite airy, but I find it too water-absorbing for me.

 

[leatherback]

in the mailbox (in the literal sense ).

Wow, you must have a huge mailbox. That tree would not fit in mine!

I recently noticed that some young branches began to shrivel as if they were drying out.

The left picture shows a rough-cut stump. The whole tree looks like it was recently collected. Could it be a collection from spring, where the tree is still settling in? That would feel right looking at the ranches on the tree, all fairly weak and short growth.

beech is very bad on backbudding.

tbh, I find beech really great at backbudding... Clip the terminal bud, and 2-4 buds appear on the branch. Partially defoliate and the tree throws buds on the trunk..

 

[proninyaroslav]

The left picture shows a rough-cut stump

Well, it was collected 2 years ago, that's for sure. It really was a tree stump with several branches at the bottom. He didn't work on secondary branching, just growing the primary branching.

tbh, I find beech really great at backbudding...

I had no experience with beeches, but as far as I know, if a branch is left without visible buds, then in 90% of cases it will die off.

 

[leatherback]

I had no experience with beeches, but as far as I know, if a branch is left without visible buds, then in 90% of cases it will die off.

Example, leggy tree in 2018. Winter 2018-19 cut of all leggy growth, leaving only a few buds in the whole plant. Then the branches in late april:

 

[proninyaroslav]

Nice result! It calms me down a bit

 

[sorce]

I find it too water-absorbing for me.

Imagine if a bunch of trees decided your cupboards were too full for them and started removing your nourishment.

I think the problem starts with believing this tree is healthy. It is closer to "hanging on for dear life". Watering sparsely "for you" certainly won't help the situation. (Overwatering is a myth.)

You gotta keep listening to what the tree wants, it seems to be telling you.

We have to remember that trees are perfectly efficient and also don't give a shit about our design or being pretty at all. All they need to do is put more growth on where they can do so most efficiently.

Here, it seems it has found this efficiency exactly how you have explained it, in the top.

Water goes up and food comes down, yeah?

Every one of these cycles is providing the tree with a risk/benefit analysis. It's a lot of information.

When it knows, as it shows, that it's largest return on investment is coming from, and will continue to come from, those 2 thick branches, it will take it's investment out of those little twigs that have proved no return.

Consider root mass outside investors. The fellas that will provide funding to those tiny low branches, in an effort to support their interest of moving into new markets.

This has already been repotted once since collection, and you are speaking of "the repotting" as if yearly repotting is required.

I believe it should have been left alone in that bag and basket until it showed signs of vigour, let your outside investors fill that soil.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

Nice result! It calms me down a bit

Do note, that is on a HEALTHY beech.

the problem starts with believing this tree is healthy. It is closer to "hanging on for dear life".

100%

it should have been left alone

!

Note, a healthy recovery in beech for me looks like this, one growing season:

 

[proninyaroslav]

I believe it should have been left alone in that bag and basket until it showed signs of vigour, let your outside investors fill that soil.

Do you mean repotting from the original basket to the current pot? Well, the previous owner did it. He said that at that time the roots were healthy.
I was planning to repot it in the spring into a more structured soil than now. I have no experience of growing trees in peat-based soils for a long time, so this is somewhat difficult for me.

 

[proninyaroslav]

Note, a healthy recovery in beech for me looks like this, one growing season:

Please explain in more detail for what purpose did you wrap the trunk in the first photo? To stimulate backbudding?

 

[sorce]

Do you mean repotting from the original basket to the current pot? Well, the previous owner did it. He said that at that time the roots were healthy.
I was planning to repot it in the spring into a more structured soil than now. I have no experience of growing trees in peat-based soils for a long time, so this is somewhat difficult for me.

As I read a slight, yet very unhealthy fear of overwatering, I see your difficulty as believing too much all the BS folks talk about overwatering.

I would rather you gain the experience, which will boost your confidence, as it proves to you the things people say about overwatering is in fact BS.

Should you MUST change the soil, I would do so without expecting to move the design forward for the next couple few years. Which would mean no pruning at all. Let it get that vigour.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

Please explain in more detail for what purpose did you wrap the trunk in the first photo? To stimulate backbudding?

5yr native tree challenge - Leatherbacks Fagus sylvatica

Well, as my first treedeemer thread I think this one would befit the title.. A little project I have started this spring, when I noticed one of my neighbours pulling out a beech hedgerow. After a short "Watcha Doin" and "Ya gonna toss those" (Or rather, Was machen sie?, and Was passiert mit die...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[proninyaroslav]

As I read a slight, yet very unhealthy fear of overwatering, I see your difficulty as believing too much all the BS folks talk about overwatering.

I don't believe in overwatering, but only in well-drained substrate with inorganic particles Although I usually add pine bark to my mixture, the particles are large enough not to impair the substrate airiness.

 

[sorce]

substrate airiness.

This is a myth too!

Sorce

 

[proninyaroslav]

This is a myth too!

Okay... but why has everyone switched from traditional soil to inorganic substrates in the last 20 years?

 

[AlainK]

Okay... but why has everyone switched from traditional soil to inorganic substrates in the last 20 years?

I haven't.

I'm not a "master" though, but here we can have several days, more and more often more than a week with temperatures above 30°C (86F) in summer and a few days, or more, with winter temps below zero (0°/-10° C, 32/14F).

I've found that 15 to 30% organic soil (composted pine bark) help them stay healthy.

 

[proninyaroslav]

I've found that 15 to 30% organic soil (composted pine bark) help them stay healthy.

I also love adding slowly decomposing organics. What I mean is that the trend in bonsai substrates tends to be more structured.

 

[AlainK]

I also love adding slowly decomposing organics. What I mean is that the trend in bonsai substrates tends to be more structured.

I also think that a little organic soil might help beneficial fungi or bacteriae to develop...

 

[sorce]

Okay... but why has everyone switched from traditional soil to inorganic substrates in the last 20 years?

Money see Monkey do?
Follow the Leader?

With as many trees over 30 years still alive as there are, I would question wether it matters!

Sorce