young, skinny, and naive

[catfish chapstick]

I've got this tree that I was wondering about. It's very tall and not quite old. It's kind of a tall skinny formal broom. I was trying to imagine it as a bonsai and I wonder...

Have you ever seen a bonsai that had a long canopy like this? I know the goal is to make the tree look ancient but there is something about this young form that I like. I have seen where ginkgo has been grown to a sort of flame style but I don't recall ever seeing many of those either.

I've been finding lots of elm lately and I tend to skip over the ones without any trunk movement but what if...

has this already been done? I am only posting to see what other opinions there are. I'm sure some people will not like the idea. I'm not entirely sold on the idea myself. it just seems like a out-of-the-norm pursuit so perhaps for fun

let me know what you think honestly. it's like a stretched out, young, broom. here is an image of the tree i'm looking at.

 

[october]

from a bonsai standpoint, this would be considered a less than ideal twin trunk style, for 2 reasons. First, twin trunk style trees have both trunks eminating from the ground, not high up on the trunk. Second, one of the trunks would need to be smaller than the other one. In nature, this tree could be considered nice, in bonsai, it would be considered to have 2 issues.
Also, in time, where the trunks eminate from, will cause a bulge in the trunk.

Rob

 

[rockm]

That is probably a poplar. That is their natural state, tall, close upright branching, "fastigate" growth. There are other species that have been hybridized to grow that way in landscaping, like oak, beech and hornbeam.

The form is fine if that's what you want. That form is very much associated with young and extremely young trees in nature. Limbs flatten out with age and weather, which is why "old" and "old looking" trees have more lateral branch networks.

This form isn't uncommon as you might think in bonsai. I recommend you pick up a copy of "Forest, Rock Planting & Ezo Spruce Bonsai" by Saburo Kato. This upright form is used in many of the forest planting drawings and actual bonsai forests in the book.

 

[catfish chapstick]

from a bonsai standpoint, this would be considered a less than ideal twin trunk style, for 2 reasons. First, twin trunk style trees have both trunks eminating from the ground, not high up on the trunk. Second, one of the trunks would need to be smaller than the other one. In nature, this tree could be considered nice, in bonsai, it would be considered to have 2 issues.
Also, in time, where the trunks eminate from, will cause a bulge in the trunk.

Rob

Imagine that it were one trunk. I'm just speaking to the form of the canopy. If I did it with a bonsai it would be one trunk or maybe two if, like you say, they both emerge from the ground.

 

[rockm]

Ultimately, the issue becomes how dense the branching along the trunk becomes. It might eventually hide the trunk and look like a shrub...or a beanpole of foliage...

 

[october]

Imagine that it were one trunk. I'm just speaking to the form of the canopy. If I did it with a bonsai it would be one trunk or maybe two if, like you say, they both emerge from the ground.

oh.. In that case, if you like it, then sure. I like the symmetry of the tree. The canopy and branch structure is very uniform for a tree in nature, but is nice. Almost looks man made.

You did mention that it was a young tree. Usually young trees have a difficult time of pulling off the look of a successful bonsai. One reason is because the foliage is too big for the tree. The tree does not have the age or trunk size, so it just looks like a young, styled tree. This is why Literati, to me, is so beautiful and one of the toughest styles to pull off. You are working with a slender trunk tree, yet the tree is old with foliage that is in scale with the trunk.

Rob

 

[catfish chapstick]

Ultimately, the issue becomes how dense the branching along the trunk becomes. It might eventually hide the trunk and look like a shrub...or a beanpole of foliage...

Found this image on Flickr

Idk, tho, what if the trunk had taper and the branches spaced enough to see through, only the canopy was all long? Not to hide the trunk too much. Even round the top a bit.

 

[catfish chapstick]

oh.. In that case, if you like it, then sure. I like the symmetry of the tree. The canopy and branch structure is very uniform for a tree in nature, but is nice. Almost looks man made.

You did mention that it was a young tree. Usually young trees have a difficult time of pulling off the look of a successful bonsai. One reason is because the foliage is too big for the tree. The tree does not have the age or trunk size, so it just looks like a young, styled tree. This is why Literati, to me, is so beautiful and one of the toughest styles to pull off. You are working with a sleder trunk tree, yet the tree is old with foliage that is in scale with the trunk.

Rob

I know what you mean but, as a bonsai, just because it looks young doesn't mean it has to be small. How about thirty inches or taller?

 

[nathanbs]

DO IT! It can be done no problem and Im sure it will be quite nice if done well but I have to say that Im bored just thinking about it. Theres definitely a difference between you and I other than the obvious. I want to look at my trees and go "ooh ahhh, wow", this style will make me go "oh thats nice" , and theres no problem with that. I think my problem is that I have a total of 600 trees in the ground or in pots and I am always looking for what to sell to make space and I go for the boring, simple, easy to reproduce trees first and keep the more interesting, complex ones.

 

[0soyoung]

I haven't seen any bonsai quite like this image. My thought is that it would tend to look like a stick in a pot because of difficulty achieving a level of ramification in scale with the image. But ....

cummon! Have you forgotten the discussion about flaws in masterpieces? Or should we change your handle from catfish chapstick to chicken lips?

 

[catfish chapstick]

I haven't seen any bonsai quite like this image. My thought is that it would tend to look like a stick in a pot because of difficulty achieving a level of ramification in scale with the image. But ....

cummon! Have you forgotten the discussion about flaws in masterpieces? Or should we change your handle from catfish chapstick to chicken lips?

Haha. I was imaging the bonsai to have a more substantial trunk/base, just be taller with a long tall canopy. Maybe I will draw a picture...

 

[milehigh_7]

Carpinus betulus Frans Fontaine

Carpinus betulus Frans Fontaine

 

[ABCarve]

Catfish...I like your "what if" style. I think you have a vision and you'll never know until you try. That's how the creative ball keeps moving up the hill. Cheers to you!

 

[Jason_mazzy]

that flikr photo looks like it came from down the street. We have quite afew trees that look like that.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

A tall narrow broom, go for it. You have a good idea, an image or two of model trees from nature, it will be good practive to try your hand at it. You should do it.

If you have an inexpensive source of seedlings (perhaps ones you collect) you should start several, even a dozen. Years down the road you can pick the best that fits the image, and work the rest into a forest as Rock recommended.

The broom style is a common form naturally taken by trees in nature in a forest or grove setting. As Walter Pall has been saying, forget about informal upright, broom style is the 'only natural style' for deciduous species. I mostly agree with Walter, though I do believe the word 'only' should not have been used, but as I drive around, most deciduous trees I see in the Midwest to me could be interpreted as being brooms.

Nothing wrong with a 'narrow' broom.

 

[ghues]

Hey CC.,
The poplar are used for wind breaks in many parts up this way, along farm fields and the like. I picked up a pre-bonsai hornbeam a couple of years ago that is shaped this way.....It's in a 3 galon black plastic pot....it's 4th in line on the repotting bench....will go into a oval pot.
I'm waiting for spring to actually get here ...but the larches have priority at the moment. I think the winter image would be the best look....
Cheers G

 

[catfish chapstick]

A tall narrow broom, go for it. You have a good idea, an image or two of model trees from nature, it will be good practive to try your hand at it. You should do it.

If you have an inexpensive source of seedlings (perhaps ones you collect) you should start several, even a dozen. Years down the road you can pick the best that fits the image, and work the rest into a forest as Rock recommended.

The broom style is a common form naturally taken by trees in nature in a forest or grove setting. As Walter Pall has been saying, forget about informal upright, broom style is the 'only natural style' for deciduous species. I mostly agree with Walter, though I do believe the word 'only' should not have been used, but as I drive around, most deciduous trees I see in the Midwest to me could be interpreted as being brooms.

Nothing wrong with a 'narrow' broom.

I'm surprised to not see any examples of bonsai that do this. Surely it's been thought of....

I am going to go for it. I like it. It does look artificial in a way but good design could help it become a decent bonsai. I believe it.

 

[JudyB]

I think you should do what you want with your tree. If it's a style that you are drawn to...

Is this the tree that would stop you in your tracks? That's the way I think of it, I don't see normal street trees, but when there is an old big beauty, then it registers big time. You're not making an image of just any old tree, but the best of trees. If this is an image that resonates with you, then do it.

 

[gergwebber]

That is probably a poplar. That is their natural state, tall, close upright branching, "fastigate" growth. There are other species that have been hybridized to grow that way in landscaping, like oak, beech and hornbeam.

The form is fine if that's what you want. That form is very much associated with young and extremely young trees in nature. Limbs flatten out with age and weather, which is why "old" and "old looking" trees have more lateral branch...

could be a callary pear also; when left unprunned they tend to grow out like that.

Also, CC look at Dawn Redwood, they grow like this as young trees too. Also, with metasequoia, you have the benefit of a fine semi-needle foliage, but a winter dormancy to show the trunk, and good back budding that will help manage branch ramification.

 

[Dan W.]

It seems like I've seen ginkgo bonsai styled like this fairly often.. .

Ghues, I'd love to see the tree you mentioned, when you get a chance to take some pics. Maybe at re-potting?