Zelkova vs CE

[GailC]

I managed to kill off my mallasi Chinese elm and want to order another soon but got to wondering if a zelkova might suit me better.

Can anyone run down the differences between the two?

 

[just.wing.it]

Ulmus parvifolia and Zelkova serrata are different species as I know it.....although I seem to recall a common name similarity of some sort....

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Chinese elm is well a Chinese elm

Zelkova is Japanese gray-barked elm

I have both and they seem to have similar growth characteristics, I do think the Chinese elms trunk-up faster.

 

[GailC]

Thanks @Mellow Mullet is there much difference between leaf size once they have reduced?
Since they are similiar, I'll probably go with whichever one is more cold hardy.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

I think the Chinese elm will reduce smaller, but the zelkova will get very small leaves too.

 

[jonathanvperth]

Is it so hard to spell out Chinese Elm. It’s not like people say to each other “Check out that CE!!!”

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Is it so hard to spell out Chinese Elm. It’s not like people say to each other “Check out that CE!!!”

Actually, a lot of people use abbreviations when talking about trees. I see JM for Japanese maple and BC for bald cypress all the time, my largest bald cypress is referred "the big BC" at my house and with friends, so people actually do
use the "nicknames" in conversation.

At least for me, when typing on my cell or tablet, CE is a lot easier than, Chinese Elm. I hate virtual keyboards! I really miss my Blackberry...

 

[Gsquared]

I’m not a huge fan of Chinese elm. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen some spectacular specimens, but I’ve not had one that ever showed promise. Too coarse and so many bad trunks. I’ve sold every one that I tried over the years. Zelkova on the other hand seem prettier, finer and more graceful. Not nearly as many style options, mostly all brooms, but a good zelkova broom is beautiful. I finally live in a place where they grow all over, so am trying some volunteers I dug up.

 

[Shibui]

I’m not a huge fan of Chinese elm. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen some spectacular specimens, but I’ve not had one that ever showed promise. Too coarse and so many bad trunks. I’ve sold every one that I tried over the years. Zelkova on the other hand seem prettier, finer and more graceful. Not nearly as many style options, mostly all brooms, but a good zelkova broom is beautiful. I finally live in a place where they grow all over, so am trying some volunteers I dug up.

That is interesting. I've found exactly the opposite. Chinese elms here ramify waaay better, leaves are much smaller and I have far more choices on size and shape with Chinese elms. I also have the hoice of a number of different varieties with different bark textures and different leaf sizes.

Differences between the 2 species:
CE leaf much smaller. Responds faster and better to pruning. Choice of a range of different bark textures and leaf sizes. More options for shape, size and style.
Zelkva: classic species for broom style, when grown well they have beautiful graceful shape as mentioned above.

I actually have significant problems with zelkova dying from some sort of infection. Typically it appears in very early spring. Leaves open then wilt an the plant dies. Some just don't even come into leaf after winter. I haven't worked out what the problem is but seems to only affect zelkova to the extent I now only have 1 older tree and even considering getting rid of that one.

 

[Cadillactaste]

There are also dwarf varieties out there of Chinese elm. Unsure of your temps for winter. Since I use a cold greenhouse for wintering. But they have tiny foliage.

 

[BobbyLane]

i converted to Zelkova. Chinese elm dont drop their leaves in my micro climate. i had a good chinese elm broom i sold because it would never drop its leaves for me. sort of like a woman playing hard to get, in the end i just moved on

 

[Forsoothe!]

Why not buy both? What is it about obsessive-compulsive don't you understand? You'll never get to an over-whelming 100 trees excluding candidates. You never really know what you like until you find a species that grieves all around you while you shine. Come on, it's only money, time, adrenaline, carpel tunnel and stomach acid. Don't you want to be like the rest of us?

 

[sorce]

My vote is for Siberian Elm Hands down!

I can probly ship you one before spring!

I got a couple from @M. Frary with great trunk starts that I don't have the time to stay on top of.

Sorce

 

[JudyB]

If you want fall leaf color Zelkova is much better, as it will do a range of orange red and yellow. CE if you're lucky will do a yellow. Some people have been known to overwinter CE inside if you are trying to do that. Zelkova will not tolerate that. Chinese elms are certainly more available, decent zelkova can be hard to find, although there are many vendors who label the CE as such.

 

[Cadillactaste]

There is a Chinese elm on Bonsai Auctions.

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Personally without a way to offer a bit of protection I would worry about acclimating.

 

[GailC]

@sorce I'd very much appreciate it since it seems like I need both.

 

[M. Frary]

@sorce I'd very much appreciate it since it seems like I need both.

Careful with fertilizer.
It will grow fast enough to get you.
The great thing about those trees is you never need worry about overwintering.
30 below is just another day to them.

 

[cmeg1]

I am liking both.
In my experiance zelkova do great backbudding with a ph 5.5-6.5 if in stony hydro soil.
Actually really important because they will grow fast and then stall and stop backbudding and everything when ph is out of wack.
If you can dial in ph then just do not give excess nitrogen or it will use all photosynthetic energy just to assimilate nitrogen and get weak top growth with little rooting.Let the leaves produce the energy that plant needs a bit .....and has been through eons of genetics that way.Nitrogen is total luxery.Balance.
More photosythetic suppliments that enhance photosynthesis like Iron,kelp,calcium,amino acids,humic acids.
If organic soil,same methodology,but ph a bit higher as soil is a natural buffer and also mychoriza is handy in organic soils if using organic phospherous like rock phosphate or bone meal.....ph is very important.Trees will backbud way better and earlier.

I have chinese elm growing Im so excited to see how they do.I was suggested from a freind they would possibly do well in my 86-91f grow room.
I will sell if they perform well with seedling layering like zelkova has proved.Actually excited for chinese elm now they are at 4th set of leaves.
Growing SUPER fast indoors.I get backbuds on 3” braches.

happy scientific mood today

 

[cmeg1]

can actually use a lot less fertilizer when adding all the suppliments I mentioned if you get an EC meter.
Fertilizer companies instructions are way overdosed......if they also own pesticides as well( which I really don’t know) ........that is freakin robbery. Pesticides are banned in Holland I think...Dutch government.
They use calcium and L glutamate and L glycine to increase calcium by thousands of times.........suppliments too......also less fertilizer for high brix plants and no pesticide.
I am happy amazed scientist this morning
Not yelling lol

I love your thread @GailC

 

[Anthony]

Becareful, at last count there were over 20 cultivars of Chinese
Elms. You can get new types from roots or shoots.
Some are very finely branched and with tiny leaves.
Some need winter, others like the Tropics.

The Chinese make up ages as some elms can really trunk expand.
Illusion. You willingly pay more.
Fun tu grow from roots. More peronality.
Good Day
Anthony