Bonsai Beginner. Chinese Elm

[KINGSLAYER]

Hello all. I started getting into Bonsai around this time last year. After killing quite a few trees I figured it was time to find some help. My first tree was a juniper which didn't last very long, looking back it was probably because I wasn't feeding it. I got another juniper which lasted longer but still didn't make it. After doing my research I believe my problem is my feeding and watering schedule. I currently have two sweetgum maple trees, one is a sapling, the other is a couple years old. Both are from the wild and both survived the winter. Yesterday I got a Chinese Elm, I think. I repotted it in a mixture of lava rocks, orchid bark, and a small amount of top soil. The tree is outside getting lots of morning sun. My questions are how often should I fertilizer and water my elm? Fo they like the soil to completely dry out between watering? Any help and suggestions would be awesome. Thanks guys!

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[bougie nights]

Kingslayer, or should I say..."Jaime"

Your soil mix may be too heavy for this piece. I think you were on the right track with lava rock and orchid bark, but topsoil may not be a good ingredient. Water needs to flow freely through your container. Since most bonsai pots are shallow, the soils can remain saturated if they contain topsoil or potting soil, or a lot of other fine materials.

 

[KINGSLAYER]

It seems to be draining pretty good. I'm thinking of buying a premixed soil online. Would it be ok to repot it so frequently?

 

[Vin]

It seems to be draining pretty good. I'm thinking of buying a premixed soil online. Would it be ok to repot it so frequently?

About 10 years ago (before I got into bonsai) I planted some junipers in my yard and they died within a year. I now know the problem was I planted them under a tree and junipers need at least 6 hours of full sun each day. Same goes for your elm with the addition of watering every day. Your photo looks like you have a lot of shade. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

 

[KINGSLAYER]

About 10 years ago (before I got into bonsai) I planted some junipers in my yard and they died within a year. I now know the problem was I planted them under a tree and junipers need at least 6 hours of full sun each day. Same goes for your elm with the addition of watering every day. Your photo looks like you have a lot of shade. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

My Junipers were on a screened in porch.
The elm should definitely get at least 6 hours of full sun. It is facing directly east. So water everyday? Is it best to water in the early morning or during the hottest part of the day? Also fertilizer, do yall use a specialty fertilizer or just just something like miracle grow?

 

[M. Frary]

Since it's draining OK. I would leave it alone this year and then get it into some bonsai soil. Only water as needed. Don't let it dry out completely. Stick a chopstick(or toothpick) in the soi about 2" pull it out in 10 minutes and if dry water if moist wait. When watering make sure it runs out or you are not getting everything wet. Keep it in full sun . Elms are tough and one of the best trees to start with. Good luck on your bonsai journey.

 

[Vin]

My Junipers were on a screened in porch.
The elm should definitely get at least 6 hours of full sun. It is facing directly east. So water everyday? Is it best to water in the early morning or during the hottest part of the day? Also fertilizer, do yall use a specialty fertilizer or just just something like miracle grow?

You should not water anything during the hottest part of the day. If you have to, move it to a shaded area, water, let leaves dry then move back in the sun. Wet leaves + full sun = burnt leaves. Junipers are a little less finicky. Early morning is the way to go. I use Osmocote but there are many other brands that will work just fine.

 

[johng]

You should not water anything during the hottest part of the day. If you have to, move it to a shaded area, water, let leaves dry then move back in the sun. Wet leaves + full sun = burnt leaves. Junipers are a little less finicky. Early morning is the way to go. I use Osmocote but there are many other brands that will work just fine.

I am sorry to say it Vin, but your advice about not watering in the full sun is a complete myth! I regularly water trees in full sun and never have scorched leaves...often with an overhead watering system...lots of wet leaves. I do believe there have been several studies that prove this point. Personally I believe that if you are in a hot climate, watering during the hottest part of the day is beneficial as it cools the pots and thus the roots. Ever touched a ceramic pot sitting in full sun???

Water when your trees needs it...they will not follow a schedule! One of the hardest parts of bonsai is watering...getting in a regular habit of checking your trees for water has proven to be a challenge for most beginners. The chopstick advice is good and will only be necessary for a short time...you will quickly learn to recognize when your trees need water.

Fertilizing...right now it is more important to fertilize than it is to worry about what to use...just do it and do it frequently...your trees will thank you...miracle grow is fine!

There are many bonsai folks in Atlanta and decent club to boot...if you are serious about this, it would be good for a multitude of reasons to seek the advice of those local to you.

Good luck with your trees!
John

 

[GrimLore]

I am pretty certain John G is referring to specimens void of soil as it will compact and cause problems...

Grimmy

 

[Vin]

I am sorry to say it Vin, but your advice about not watering in the full sun is a complete myth! I regularly water trees in full sun and never have scorched leaves...often with an overhead watering system...lots of wet leaves. I do believe there have been several studies that prove this point. Personally I believe that if you are in a hot climate, watering during the hottest part of the day is beneficial as it cools the pots and thus the roots. Ever touched a ceramic pot sitting in full sun???

Water when your trees needs it...they will not follow a schedule! One of the hardest parts of bonsai is watering...getting in a regular habit of checking your trees for water has proven to be a challenge for most beginners. The chopstick advice is good and will only be necessary for a short time...you will quickly learn to recognize when your trees need water.

Fertilizing...right now it is more important to fertilize than it is to worry about what to use...just do it and do it frequently...your trees will thank you...miracle grow is fine!

There are many bonsai folks in Atlanta and decent club to boot...if you are serious about this, it would be good for a multitude of reasons to seek the advice of those local to you.

Good luck with your trees!
John

John, while I agree that there is information out there that supports the watering issue as a myth my experience is to err on the side of caution. I have lived in Florida for 30 years and have had leaf burn issues (with some plants) as a result of watering in full sun. I have not had any issues if I limit watering to the early morning hours.

However, I’m going to research the subject some more and may adjust my opinion accordingly. Maybe it’s a specific type of plant or leaf that’s susceptible to leaf burn? Now you got me thinking… Isn’t there a water conservation issue to contend with as well?

This is a great website!

 

[KINGSLAYER]

Fertilizing...right now it is more important to fertilize than it is to worry about what to use...just do it and do it frequently...your trees will thank you...miracle grow is fine!

When using the little granule type fertilizers, should I wait until the old ones are gone or just keep applying new? Every other week or so? Any good links for beginners on fertilizing?

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

 

[johng]

John, while I agree that there is information out there that supports the watering issue as a myth my experience is to err on the side of caution. I have lived in Florida for 30 years and have had leaf burn issues (with some plants) as a result of watering in full sun. I have not had any issues if I limit watering to the early morning hours.

However, I’m going to research the subject some more and may adjust my opinion accordingly. Maybe it’s a specific type of plant or leaf that’s susceptible to leaf burn? Now you got me thinking… Isn’t there a water conservation issue to contend with as well?

This is a great website!

Leaf burn is certainly a real thing...it just doesn't happen from the magnification of the sun through drops of water on the leaf.

John

 

[johng]

When using the little granule type fertilizers, should I wait until the old ones are gone or just keep applying new? Every other week or so? Any good links for beginners on fertilizing?

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

My best advice is to read and follow the directions...but keep it simple. Take some time to learn what it takes to keep your tree healthy and vigorous...it sounds like you are well on your way to understanding that a healthy tree is a perquisite to even thinking about bonsai.

 

[Dav4]

Water is sprayed on things to cool them, not burn them. Think about it. Assuming the water droplet could actually focus the sun light enough to create a hot spot on the leaf surface (I don't think it can- the focal length of a water droplet wouldn't allow for it), wouldn't the water evaporate as the leaf surface warmed, and in doing so, cool the leaf? Also, imagine the carnage a brief mid day rain shower would inflict on everything from leaves to paint on houses and cars, etc. I just doesn't make sense.

 

[Vin]

Water is sprayed on things to cool them, not burn them. Think about it. Assuming the water droplet could actually focus the sun light enough to create a hot spot on the leaf surface (I don't think it can- the focal length of a water droplet wouldn't allow for it), wouldn't the water evaporate as the leaf surface warmed, and in doing so, cool the leaf? Also, imagine the carnage a brief mid day rain shower would inflict on everything from leaves to paint on houses and cars, etc. I just doesn't make sense.

I read it on the internet,, it must be true.

http://www.searle.com.au/LeafBurn.html

 

[Dav4]

I read it on the internet,, it must be true.

http://www.searle.com.au/LeafBurn.html

Yikes! Foiled again...Damn you, World Wide Web!!!!

 

[Vin]

Yikes! Foiled again...Damn you, World Wide Web!!!!

Seriously though, I’m definitely going to be less apprehensive about watering during the midday sun. Thanks for the insight and by the way (johng) nice Flat-top Bald Cypress; a great inspiration to keep in mind for my newly collected specimens. Thanks again Nuts!

 

[Ross]

I read it on the internet,, it must be true.

http://www.searle.com.au/LeafBurn.html

JohnG is right. Watering in full sun does not cause leaf burn. That link provides very inaccurate and misleading information. If water droplets focused sun like a magnifying glass, people would get little burns all over their body when exiting the pool on a hot summer day. This myth needs to be put to rest. That Chinese elm can take full summer sun, and if properly watered will reward you with smaller leaves and stronger growth.

 

[Ross]

I should add that with a healthy tree in a proper bonsai mix it is virtually impossible to over-water it. I often read people online claiming that over-watering is the biggest cause of death for beginners' trees, but I guarantee you that the one sure way to kill your tree is to let it completely dry out. A thorough watering brings air into the root system as the water drains, and root rot is caused by a lack of oxygen.

 

[Vin]

JohnG is right. Watering in full sun does not cause leaf burn. That link provides very inaccurate and misleading information. If water droplets focused sun like a magnifying glass, people would get little burns all over their body when exiting the pool on a hot summer day. This myth needs to be put to rest. That Chinese elm can take full summer sun, and if properly watered will reward you with smaller leaves and stronger growth.

I agree completely. I have a 20 footer in the front yard that gets zero shade year round. Except during winter it gets watered daily (with low angle sprinkler heads) and is extremely healthy. My misguided ways have been made right.