HEY NEWBIES!

[milehigh_7]

Well I'm done on this thread. I was never intending to discuss the pros and cons of box stock; rather to present a two fold purpose of promoting those of our number who grow and sell for bonsai. Further to point out that that for the same price or less than you spend on a few HD runs you could have something MUCH better.

If you are going to tell me you can do better than this at HD for the quality vs price I will call BS.

$25 for small ones
$45 for big ones,


In truth I was honestly looking out for the newer people who have popped up here in the past year and are still in the rescue every tree I find phase. This is not about what NOT to buy rather what you SHOULD buy. I think with regard to buying stock, the more skilled a person becomes, the more choosy they are with what they buy and the more times they walk out of a nursery with nothing.

I have been doing this now since 1999 and have failed and restarted more times than I can count. I have bought more junk than I can begin to tell you which directly translates into wasted years. Here is the shirt I wear hoping some people do better than me. I could give you a list of people here on the Nut House that started WAY after me and are WAY ahead of me chiefly because of the material they use.

 

[JunTong]

Hi guys! Major noobie over here. I got this juniper over 8 months ago. I noticed recently that browning has started in some parts. Is this normal or is this a sign that my bonsai needs some urgent care? Will appreciate any guidance you can provide. Not sure what to do, i don't want to make the browning worse!

 

[coh]

Hi guys! Major noobie over here. I got this juniper over 8 months ago. I noticed recently that browning has started in some parts. Is this normal or is this a sign that my bonsai needs some urgent care? Will appreciate any guidance you can provide. Not sure what to do, i don't want to make the browning worse!

Not a good sign, though it's kind of difficult to really see what is going on...lighting isn't too good.

Are you keeping this indoors? What about watering, fertilizing? This should be outside if possible.

 

[M. Frary]

Is that window it's home?
If it is get it outside. It may be too late.
It's supposed to be living outdoors.

 

[LanceMac10]

 

[Stickroot]

Well I'm done on this thread. I was never intending to discuss the pros and cons of box stock; rather to present a two fold purpose of promoting those of our number who grow and sell for bonsai. Further to point out that that for the same price or less than you spend on a few HD runs you could have something MUCH better.

If you are going to tell me you can do better than this at HD for the quality vs price I will call BS.

$25 for small ones
$45 for big ones,


In truth I was honestly looking out for the newer people who have popped up here in the past year and are still in the rescue every tree I find phase. This is not about what NOT to buy rather what you SHOULD buy. I think with regard to buying stock, the more skilled a person becomes, the more choosy they are with what they buy and the more times they walk out of a nursery with nothing.

I have been doing this now since 1999 and have failed and restarted more times than I can count. I have bought more junk than I can begin to tell you which directly translates into wasted years. Here is the shirt I wear hoping some people do better than me. I could give you a list of people here on the Nut House that started WAY after me and are WAY ahead of me chiefly because of the material they use.

Great thanks @milehigh_7
And good looking out.
Amur Maples are also a great starter tree because they are HARD to kill!
They are bare rooted year round at a lot of tree farms. Now not to say they won't be more vigorous if worked on in spring, but they can be abused more than most and not miss a beat.

 

[Paradox]

Three of my Home Depot / Landscape Nursery Trees. All of these have had work done to them since these pictures were taken. The Ilex and the scots have been cut back considerably.

Mugo Pine found at Home Depot. ~ 2 inch trunk $40


Ilex crenata found at a landscape nursery ~ 4 inch trunk $30 in the bargain section


Scots Pine found at a landscape nursery 3-4 inch trunk. $90
As Purchased


Plan for development


These are the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time what you find doesnt look anything like these.

 

[JunTong]

Is that window it's home?
If it is get it outside. It may be too late.
It's supposed to be living outdoors.

Thanks Coh/M Frary. Yes it is indoors. Yikes, i will take it to the garden outside asap. lesson learned!

 

[Paradox]

Some of my pre-bonsai trees grown for bonsai and purchased at a bonsai nursery or from bonsai growers. All of these are also works in progress but are further along than the HD/Landscape nursery trees above. The least expensive one of these was $165.

JBP



Trident

 

[sorce]

Time is relative.
Trees grow.

When people on here buy "good" trees,
You see that have to fix a lot of shit.

When people buy HD stock...
They have to fix a lot of shit.

Bonsai Nut is a forum about, best I could tell.....everything Bonsai....
This is not a world class show.

Time is relative.
Trees grow.

Judy's tree can be shit in a season in the wrong hands.
On the other side....it's Judy, and she is getting rid of it.....so it ain't perfect!

Those Amurs, no offense Stick, are no different than any other chopped log we see, that need just as much time to grow into a "bonsai".

How is that any different than Home Depot Stock?

There are two sides to this coin.
The only thing for certain...
In time....
The coin will fall.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

I buy nursery stock. Matter of fact if you want a mugo pine that's where you get one. But there are nurseries that are better than big box. I'm going to look at some mugo pines in 10 gallon buckets in a couple weeks. I saw them last year and when I called this spring they said I could have them for half price. They have been there for years he said.
If you want something like a shimpaku or chinese elm or a decent japanese maple,JWP or JBP you will be getting it from a bonsai nursery. I will be ordering another shimpaku juniper from Meehan this year. For what I'll be paying I could buy 6 or more trees from a regular nursery.
Like Sorce says there are 2 sides to every coin. I use both sides.
And I do know if a Trident maple could thrive here I would probably end Judy's thread by buying it. As for amur maple they are in nurseries by me so if I want one I'll go get one.
But it's hard to find amur Sticks size. And they are tough trees. Amur maples are great trees for beginners and seasoned bonsai vets. I think new people looking to get into maple bonsai should look awful hard at these before they go buy something from a big box store. I would.

 

[sorce]

Amur

Amen to that....

I dug mine after leaf out...
Hit hard with mites for its whole 3 seasons. Untreated.

Last year....I knocked off the low buds in a "doh" moment....
This year I got more...and lower.

The rootmass is solid enough to break a windshield with.
And the base keeps flaring and thickening....nebari improving....
And Thats in my 4in basket!

The Arctic Trident is one of my favs.

Wanna see a good one check out mach5s.

If I didn't find the motherload of them....
I would totally buy Stickroots trees.
I may even still down the road.

I think I'm going to focus on Amur Maples and Ulmus Localus.
Mugo for a pine.
I think Spruce is good.

But I'm done with sissass trees.

People say Junipers are tough.
Well....maybe the Mountain grown ones.
I think I killed all mine again!

Except for the shitty sargenti. Of course.

Sorce

 

[armetisius]

I've noticed a major change in the nursery stock available locally at Lowes and Home Depot in just the past few years. Whereas you used to be able to find plants with single trunks with decent size (occasionally), now you're more likely to find multiple skinny trunks, like they just stuck a bunch of small rooted cuttings in the same size pot. This gives the illusion of age because the multiple trunks produce a lot of foliage...but it's misleading.
I picked up a decent sized magnolia about 4 years ago for $20. It had a single trunk with some movement and reasonable size (maybe 1.5") for the price. The next year I looked for another but for the same price all they had was skinny little things usually with a multiple trunks. And that has been the case since.

I agree; however, I do have a little bit of an insiders track on that. Good nursery stock takes time
AND skilled labor. If you have any doubt hire someone off a corner to prune your hedge.
BUT, and I know this for a fact, there is a shortage of skilled labor for a number of reasons. Keeping
the lights & water on requires sales and NOT the ones to you. What keeps a nursery profitable is
"lots" of 50/100/1,000. These sales are usually made to developers/landscape architects retained
by them to 'landscape' a housing development or shopping/retail installation. When things blew up
a lot of them closed; no building, = no sales, = no lights or water = CLOSED! The long time nursery/seasonal
labor left right along with them. No work = "Welcome to Walmart" or whatever available. Pruning is
not an easily transferred/transmuted skill. But essential to quality nursery production.
Then there are the tightening immigration laws. I was told, flat out, by an owner of one of the biggest and
most respected nurseries in the Southeast that their 'business plan' had been based on "cheap immigrant labor".
Lacking that--they are just trying to keep the rows full by, as you said, planting what will fill a pot quickly enough
to turn enough profit to keep the place open. I have had to split new 3 gallon stock to individuals yielding
from 3 to five plants. [Butchering knives work best for that. Serrated edged bread knives for fine rooted]
But I only do so IF that is the only way I can procure a certain variety of something. Roughly, they
are MINE; meant to be 'mother plants' to propagate from. The home/individual buyer knows no difference
[many feel they are getting a better deal] not knowing that those 3 azaleas planted in one hole will
never be as beautiful as one well grown one; too much competition for too little space/soil--at least
one of them always dies, usually the one in front. I have always found that the smaller and more local
a nursery is the more likely you will find 'better' stock. Backyard Mom and Pops' are my favorite.
With increases in labor costs & shortage of skilled labor continuing I do not see it changing back
too rapidly--Pity.
Just what I see from the other side of the fence.

 

[eferguson1974]

Theres a lot to be said for yamadori. But to keep'em alive is the hard part. Maybe its better to learn to keep things cheap material before collecting. I didnt know any better and more or less dove in, collecting and buying. Now Im learning the keep it alive stage but havnt lost tooooo many. Yet. Azelias love to die for me and junipers... I wont buy another! Learning soil, watering and other things Ive learned here have helped a lot. So, thanks to all who have helped!

 

[sorce]

Yet. Azelias love to die for me and junipers.

Me too...

F em!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

Me too...

F em!

Sorce

How are you guys killing junipers? It takes outside help from the VC to kill mine.
I bareroot them and repot them in summer. I cut 3/4 of the foliage off. And the absolute worse.I pinch them. Can't hardly kill them.
Maybe you guys need to pinch them more. It keeps them awake.

 

[Potawatomi13]

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/quercus-virginiana.4751/ mind you after I cleaned it out more it was closer to a 6" base. I believe this cost me $20 for a 25" box. Here's a video for another look.

WOW! Worth way more than you paid and you do good movement in branches as well. Very good work. Started as young man cruising back of car lots and have moved on to nurseries and serves me very well at times. Save money where ever possible.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@milehigh_7 Clyde, thanks for pointing out the posts in the ''For Sale'' section of our forum. I understood your intent to help newbies and our vendor members.

I really appreciate members who go through the trouble of making stock trained with bonsai in mind available. Perhaps newbies should stay away from quality pre-bonsai. at least until they have figured ojt which end the the pine tree needs to be in the ground.

But the good quality pre-bonsai stock is exactly what is needed for the person who is still new, but has kept a tree alive for 2 years. The beginning and intermediate grower really could move their collection forward with good stock.

 

[M. Frary]

@milehigh_7 Clyde, thanks for pointing out the posts in the ''For Sale'' section of our forum. I understood your intent to help newbies and our vendor members.

I really appreciate members who go through the trouble of making stock trained with bonsai in mind available. Perhaps newbies should stay away from quality pre-bonsai. at least until they have figured ojt which end the the pine tree needs to be in the ground.

But the good quality pre-bonsai stock is exactly what is needed for the person who is still new, but has kept a tree alive for 2 years. The beginning and intermediate grower really could move their collection forward with good stock.

Only 3 paragraphs Leo? Are you feeling well?

 

[sorce]

Leo? Are you feeling well

I thought that too! But cuz of....

ojt which end the the

He done went Blueberry Mad!

How close to Flint are you!

Sorce