Take-a-way thoughts from the Hydroponic crowd

[Desert Rat]

After visiting a dedicated, legitimate Hydroponic store, I have to admit that those guys seem to know what they're talking about. After seeing their crops (actual vegetables), I certainly do believe in what they were talking about. It seems to me that the Hydroponic world is not too far off from what we do in Bonsai- inorganic soil, organic fertilizer, selective pruning, all sorts of chemistry involved. With their advice, I was able to walk away with some kelp meal (trying to source some sort of growth hormone, or something like it), and will probably be back to try some foliar sprays.

What about all of you? Any good information that might be able to be gleaned? Either first hand or second hand? I know that some of you (like Frary) have experimented with growing Hydroponic crops.

 

[Cadillactaste]

http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/got-some-new-trees-lots-of-pics-and-questions.16806/page-3

Check out Timetravel...he's from Arizona as well. Maybe you may know each other somehow.

 

[Desert Rat]

Dang man, give it a rest, don't shit in this thread too. I thought you had me on ignore?

 

[michaelj]

I've learned a lot from the hydroponics guys. While their horticultural goals are not all entirely the same as ours in bonsai, they are usually aligned, and these guys know their stuff, for obvious reasons.

 

[quietobserver]

I'm still curious about using hydroponics for cuttings. I've read a couple of articles in bonsai mags, but usually get the wtf look when i mention it to others.

 

[sorce]

I think it could end the soil debate forever. But, the fertilizer debate would be twice as long.

So its a wash!

Sorce

 

[augustine]

Only thing I can add is that kelp meal and kelp emulsion are very good for our bonsai and plants in general. Used it for the last couple of years with good results.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Hydroponics stores are in the business of selling stuff, keep that in mind when the latest and greatest snake oil is waived before your eyes. Otherwise Hydroponics stores are a GREAT RESOURCE. They understand horticulture of plants in pots better than just about any other retail outlet nursery or garden center. They are the go to if you want to grow under lights. I frequent at least monthly my local shop. I am still eyeballing the new, higher output LED light systems, haven't decided to try one yet, but each year they seem better and better quality. I run over 1000 orchids under lights, so I try to keep up on lighting developments. Couldn't do it without being able to "kick the tires" with a visit to a hydroponics store.

For years "Smoke" Al Keppler has been talking about the benefits of humic acids, and one good source for humic acids is indeed seaweed and kelp. Hydroponics industry understands the value of humic acid.

The mist propagators for rooting cuttings are really nice, high tech ways to propagate more difficult to root species. I think the reason you don't hear of bonsai people using them for cuttings is the cost. Just sticking cuttings in a pot will get you some success, often if one in 10 root, bonsai people are happy. So many bonsai hobbyists don't consider spending the significant money on one of the cloning machines. Commercial guys need a set up larger than the ones sold in retail hydroponics shops and they end up making their own or buying a greenhouse size set up. If the cost of one of the cloning machines fits your budget for the hobby, I would think they would work well.

Bonsai in pots are very similar to vegetables, or other plants in inert hydroponic media. The main difference is we tend not to re-cycle the water. But in these days of water rationing in the southwest I would think ebb and flow tables might be a good idea for some bonsai set ups. Easy to do with shohin and smaller to midsize trees. Perhaps because we tend to grow outdoors, people don't want an electric extension cord running out to the garden to power an Ebb and Flow table. I am considering it as a way to keep things watered while I'm away for a weekend. Lots of ideas. Visit your local hydroponics store.

 

[zelk]

There definitely is a science behind hydroponics. It is only good at producing results if the person doing the hydroponics is educated about what they are doing and why. Since the gardener has control over nearly every factor, there is a lot that can be done out of misguided intent. This also means there are lots of bogus products out there.

 

[Anthony]

Here's a simple one - less than 1/3 compost by volume, and 5mm particles.

Grows anything well.
We have 6 months of no rain and 6 months that average 6" or less of rain.
Desert to Tropical jungle effects.

As the trees are now over 20 years [ 30 + actually ] the demand for extensions is almost none existent.
So the compost is sufficient to feed for a year or two, depends on the tree type.

"We grow our trees for beauty, not produce or size/lumber "

Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

For years "Smoke" Al Keppler has been talking about the benefits of humic acids, and one good source for humic acids is indeed seaweed and kelp. Hydroponics industry understands the value of humic acid.

@barrosinc another, "California echo."

Sorce

 

[rockm]

Jesus, no bonsai is not hydroponics. Never will be and that's a good thing.

More to learn FROM ACTUAL BONSAI growers than pot growers about growing actual bonsai. The sideways slide into hydroponics is OK--if you're into hydroponics (and not selling pretty expensive and flashy --and superfluous--hydroponics stuff, which this thread may be intended to do)...FWIW, the use of humic acid came from regular old nursery practices, not from the fevered dreams of the proprietors of a Denver head shop...

 

[armetisius]

Okay. Now that you have attempted a comparison of hydroponics and bonsai, and been stomped on,
perhaps I might suggest that you do some reading on alpine/rock gardening/scree gardening. Many
more aspects in common than not.

 

[rockm]

Look, no offense really meant. This "went to my hydroponics store and DUUUUDE there's some REALLY sweet gear in there" comes up a lot. People get all emotional over hydroponics and how it can "revolutionize" bonsai. Once the buzz clears, you realize it probably won't and you can definitely do without the expensive additions to your bonsai hobby. No amount of new fancy equipment will replace basic bonsai skills. More equipment is a crutch.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

look AT NO POINT did I suggest LEARN BONSAI at a hydroponics store, dude, I was only suggesting in a positive tone that a hydroponics store has some useful products. Why crap on that? All horticulture and agriculture is related, the common theme is meeting the metabolic needs of the plants being grown. So if you keep in mind that you are growing bonsai and not reefer, you can some get ideas and some supplies from a hydroponics shop. Yes, be cautious of snake oil and needless gadgets. Of course if you want to learn bonsai, go visit a bonsai artist or a bonsai nursery or a bonsai society meeting. Even traditional Japanese bonsai nurseries adopt new technologies, the greenhouses at Aichien, and at Kimura's look quite modern, where do you think they get their ideas from? Aichien uses flat plastic tape instead of raffia, don't you think that idea came from "outside" traditional bonsai tradition? Maybe not hydroponics stores, but certainly from other aspects of agriculture and horticulture. You can be certain a fair percentage of Japanese bonsai nurseries send someone now and then to check out agriculture industry and horticulture potted plant industry trade shows. Get ideas where you can is my point.

Granted, my local hydroponics shop is staffed with reasonable, practical people, all the staff is old enough to be paying mortgages and worrying about tuition for their children or grandchildren, rather than smoking pot all day. If your local hydroponics shop is staffed with nothing but pot heads, then you need to seek out another shop, there are many to choose from.

 

[rockm]

See what I mean.