Yamadori shohin spruce

[october]

You are correct...I guess you could say classic modern..lol...

Ironically enough. I had a discussion With John R about this very subject about a year ago. I had asked him when did bonsai become so perfect. I had commented about John Naka and previous and I asked if he had known when exactly did the switch take place. I don't think there is/was a clear cut answer. I think bonsai is kind of like everything else in life... It is something that has evolved where people are trying to achieve perfection. To the point where it is super human. I mean we have people that can create paintings so detailed, it looks like photographs. (However, this also dates back to the renaissance time).. people that can draw like a black and white photograph. People that can run the length of multiple marathons in a row. etc...

I guess I am starting to see my bonsai in a more modern light as well. I do like a well organized and structured tree. I do like the format becasue the bottom of the tree is strong and large and the upper part is small. Which generally is the traingle. I do not seek the triangle. It is just that if it weren't for the triangle, we would have trees that are thicker in mass and foliage on the top, we would have what would appear to be stand up rectangular shaped trees, barrel shaped silhouettes or inverse silhouettes.

Rob

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

And that would be wrong because??? lol

 

[october]

lol.. Penjing doesn't count

 

[october]

No disrespect to the artist. I think it is a beautiful composition. But how about this...

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

First off... WOW those are fighting words...... second... that's Vaughn Banting's work... as true an American Bonsai Artist as ever has lived. If you are not familiar with flat top styles from the Southern states of the US, it goes back to the thing Daniel has always said... an artist's vision in is limited by the range of their visual experience.

The penjing thing is almost worth it's own smack down thread though...lol

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

ACK... not only no... but hell no. lol

 

[october]

I am aware of that style.. It also resembles trees in africa.. also,, did you see my virt?? I think I posted it when you posted your reply.

 

[october]

ha ha ha ha ... Actually, I like both versions This is fun...

 

[october]

Ironically enough... I actually really enjoy penjing creations. I have a couple of books with penjing sections and also a bunch a pics of absolutely stunning penjing compositions.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Sometimes you are so stubborn with your triangles. ugh. lol Hence why I started down this road. I see a repetition of pattern in your work which I am literally dieing to see you break out of. One of these days.... I'll get through. I know I will... I'm just as stubborn as you.

V

 

[october]

This is an interesting discussion. If you want to start a thread somewhere here to continue it. I will contribute... Also, when I said penjing doesn't count, I mean as far as the rules and principles of bonsai. I realize that penjing is the foundation of which bonsai eminated.. So, it counts as far as bonsai origins. However, for discussion purposes, said triangle, penjing should be part of a different discussion.

 

[october]

You make me smile... However, with master Tsukada, Master Mitsuo and others frequenting the nursery.. It is only going to get worse... ha haha h .. Worse in your view, but better in mine..

 

[brianjuniper]

That tree looks awesome wonca again great work rob and very inspiring.

Brian.

 

[tmmason10]

I missed this post Rob, but another great tree with a great styling. I think the triangles look great myself.

 

[october]

Thanks Brain and Tom...

Yes, I like the triangles as well. Well, I should say I like a nicely balanced tree.

 

[JudyB]

Thanks Rob and Vic, for a nice discussion..

More please, I find these different points of view and discussion of them to be very informative, and stimulating.

 

[october]

Thanks Judy.. Victrinia and I used to talk trees all the time many years ago.. It is good to get 2 sides. One key point is respect. Both her and I respect each others work.. So the debates end up being informative, rather than spiteful.

Rob

 

[Attila Soos]

FWIW,
A flat (or rounded top) is the sign of a mature tree. Also, many old trees have an irregular top.
A pointed top is the sign of an imature tree - generally speaking.

Your photoshop of the Banting tree just made the tree look younger. The shape is still pleasing, but the tree lost a good deal of age. Nothing wrong with making the tree look younger, if that's what you want. But I, personally, like to make the tree look older. I just had this crazy new idea, that bonsai look more interesting if the trees shown look very old. It's just me.

 

[october]

Hello Atilla.. You are actually talking about 2 different things here.. Although a a flatter crown represents and older tree, too flat, like the one shown does not look bonsai like to me. There is much discussion on bonsai looking like a full size tree. However, you will notice that about 90% of japanese masterpieces look like an artists rendition and not necessarilly like a full size tree in nature. I do still adhere to what looks best for the tree. However, I like seeing a tree structured in the modern classic styling. Yes, the tree posted did look like a tree in nature and I respect it and I do think it has beauty. It is just not something I would strive for..I am not saying it is easy to create either. Also, it is not somethign that you would normally see in a strict Japanese bonsai exhibit.

I like a beautiful crown with some structure.. Also, just because there is a little point, it can still be and look very old.

Rob

 

[tmmason10]

I'm loving these thread and it's really making me think. Keep the discussion going guys. I wish I had trees at the stage where someone could productively analyze them.