Japanese White Pine from seed ( the next generations material)

River's Edge

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Vancouver Island, British Columbia
USDA Zone
8b
Started the process to improve the availability of JWP for the next generation. Personally I have found it very difficult to acquire JWP on their own roots. After a recent trip to Kokufu and seeing the amazing trees I decided this material should be available. With the help of a BNut member who currently lives in Japan I was able to source some seeds to begin the process. Thanks to " Yamabudoudanshi" for his valuable assistance. This thread will document the process and progress. Given my age I expect the will be transferring to new enthusiasts sooner rather than later in development. My goal will be to set the basic nebari and trunk structure for an interesting foundation to work with.
I began with th purchase of some JWP seeds from a reputable seller in Japan. Due to the small size of the personal purchase it was possible to complete the correct paperwork for customs and importation without too much difficulty. They were shipped and passed through the proper channels without too much delay. The shipping and processing time was approximately two weeks.
I was fortunate to be provided with good information regarding the seeds, it was important to know when and where they were collected and how they were stored. Certain areas in Japan are noted for five needle pine with certain desirable characteristics.
1. Once the seeds arrived I began the cold stratification process after soaking for a period of 90 days. During this time I checked them every two weeks to ensure the proper moisture levels and towards the end of the period to check for sprouting! The seeds were packed in damp paper towel with shredded sphagnum moss, and then sealed in zip loc baggies. I split the seeds into four zip loc baggies of 50 seeds each. Groups of 25 seeds per paper towel. The reason for this was to limit problems if some seeds were poor or mold issues arose. Prior to placing in the fridge the following steps were taken.
30 minute soak in 50/50 solution of lime sulphur then thoroughly rinsed in clean water.
Pat dry with paper towel, Seeds laid out between paper towel and covered with shredded sphagnum moss. the packet moistened by spray bottle with a hydrogen peroxide solution ( 1part hydrogen peroxide to ten parts water) . This is the solution I used to top up the moisture in the packets as required.
2. Once I noticed some of the seeds beginning to sprout it was time to plant . I prepared a flat with the following substrate.
drainage layer of large pumice 1/2 inch deep, Medium particle pumice 1 inch deep, The rest of the soil mix ( 1 part small particle akadama to 3 parts small particle pumice.) 3 inch depth of this size mix. The seeds were laid out in rows approximately I inch apart and covered with 1/4 inch of the small particle substrate mix. Then lightly covered with shredded sphagnum moss to retain moisture.
3. The flats were placed in the greenhouse and kept moist. The first seeds began to show above ground after two weeks and they have continued to germinate steadily over the past two weeks. The books indicate a germination time of up to eight weeks so I expect the process to continue for some time. At this point the flats show over 50% germination rate.
Here are a couple of pictures to show progress to date. The last picture shows the JWP in the top row of two Anderson flats. Based on this initial trial I would plant the seeds farther apart. I will need to carefully sort roots when transferring from the flat to first seedling pots.
 

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Awesome! Can't wait to see the progress, my recent endeavor with JWP seeds wasn't the best, but I do have one seedling opening it's first set of buds- my JBP seeds did everything way, way quicker than the JWP. Hoping to see you grow plenty!
 
Awesome! Can't wait to see the progress, my recent endeavor with JWP seeds wasn't the best, but I do have one seedling opening it's first set of buds- my JBP seeds did everything way, way quicker than the JWP. Hoping to see you grow plenty!
This project will be the only one for JWP. I think the number of seedlings will be enough to keep me busy with careful developmental work along with the other species under propagation. Just decided it was not fair that we do not have access to this species when our climate is so well suited and it makes such outstanding Bonsai. I have several grafted cultivars of white Pine and like those, but most are dwarf types suited to small bonsai and very slow growers. The regular JWP is more suited to medium and large Bonsai.
I intend to wait until the third set of needles is opening before shifting to small pots for individual development. Some should be at that stage by the end of august. The seedlings will house in the greenhouse this winter, after that they will remain outside year round.
 
My seeds all failed - glad to see someone able to build for the future!
 
Very exciting Frank, thanks for doing this.
It will be rewarding to pass on the young trees to some skilled enthusiasts. With any luck I should have a promising group of pre-bonsai trees in five or six years.
 
Wishing you the very best success in this endeavor! I won't be interested in trying this species, as I'm trying to stop killing trees. But this is a noble project that will benefit those in a cooler, more humid climate than I am in.
Awesome!
 
Frank,
Bless you for this effort! I can only imagine the joy that it brings you and know that you’ve made another contribution to the art!
I would only hope that large commercial nurseries here in N.CA would take up the flagstaff!
 
Hopefully these will be able to make their way to us here in the states when the time is right. Id like to have one.
 
Quick update, The seeds have germinated, pushed the first set of needles and have begun to push the second set of needles. Once this happens I like to pot them up singly and remove from the Anderson flat. I did find nice root growth in regards to tap root and limited side roots on most of the seedlings at this stage. For the JWP I am not cutting roots at this point, will do so next spring. I would like to strengthen the roots before trimming back the tap root to encourage more lateral roots. For the five needle pine I am going to develop the root formation over time rather than radial cut the stems all at once. This will favour a steadier growth pattern overall and prevent the delay of one year that occurs with stem cutting. For those considering Mame or Shohin it may be more important to perform stem cutting at this point in order to have the branching as low as possible.
Here are a few pictures to show the process and outcome.
I am using small pots ( 3 inch diameter top) with a shallow drainage layer of large particle pumice to promote aeration/drainage and block the holes in the bottom enough that the smaller particle mix does not fall through. The mix for the small pots is 2 parts Akadama, 3 parts pumice, 2 parts black lava and 1 part fine fir bark. to this I add some Blood meal, Bone meal and Kelp meal. One tablespoon of each per gallon of mix roughly. This is to ensure some gradual fertilization in addition to liquid fertilizer used weakly, weekly when watering!
First two photos to show early tap root structure and last two to show result. Ended up with 88 JWP potted! I did sort through and retrieve the seeds that have not germinated, cleaned, disinfected and placed them back in the fridge. Will try them later to see if a few more might germinate. Nope, I have not tried that before, no idea if it will work. But I often read how some seeds will germinate much later with certain species including JWP. IMG_3850.jpegIMG_3851.jpegIMG_3852.jpegIMG_3853.jpeg
 
Amazing work! Please keep the updates coming. Following this thread.

I'm so happy to see that someone has been able to locate true JWP seeds and bring them to North America. Seems like it's been quite difficult since the pandemic...


Quick update, The seeds have germinated, pushed the first set of needles and have begun to push the second set of needles. Once this happens I like to pot them up singly and remove from the Anderson flat. I did find nice root growth in regards to tap root and limited side roots on most of the seedlings at this stage. For the JWP I am not cutting roots at this point, will do so next spring. I would like to strengthen the roots before trimming back the tap root to encourage more lateral roots. For the five needle pine I am going to develop the root formation over time rather than radial cut the stems all at once. This will favour a steadier growth pattern overall and prevent the delay of one year that occurs with stem cutting. For those considering Mame or Shohin it may be more important to perform stem cutting at this point in order to have the branching as low as possible.
Here are a few pictures to show the process and outcome.
I am using small pots ( 3 inch diameter top) with a shallow drainage layer of large particle pumice to promote aeration/drainage and block the holes in the bottom enough that the smaller particle mix does not fall through. The mix for the small pots is 2 parts Akadama, 3 parts pumice, 2 parts black lava and 1 part fine fir bark. to this I add some Blood meal, Bone meal and Kelp meal. One tablespoon of each per gallon of mix roughly. This is to ensure some gradual fertilization in addition to liquid fertilizer used weakly, weekly when watering!
First two photos to show early tap root structure and last two to show result. Ended up with 88 JWP potted! I did sort through and retrieve the seeds that have not germinated, cleaned, disinfected and placed them back in the fridge. Will try them later to see if a few more might germinate. Nope, I have not tried that before, no idea if it will work. But I often read how some seeds will germinate much later with certain species including JWP. View attachment 561463View attachment 561464View attachment 561465View attachment 561466
 
I think you had enough of them to try to prune off the entire root, and to re-root it as a cutting. That would permanently get it rid of the taproot. And all the taproot that grows from now on isn't root you'll end up pruning off anyway.
If you end up growing a second batch, I would definitely try that. I believe even someone on Bnut had either a thread or YT video documenting it.
 
I’ve been looking for some true JWP for some time and happy to see yours are growing well! I’ll be watching to see how these grow and progress
 
Thanks for bringing us on this journey with you Frank, this is an incredibly meaningful project, I look forward to living vicariously through your updates and wish you the best of luck!
 
I definitely want to know when these are available for sale. Japanese white pine are my favorite, but I have not come across many sources for material in the midwest.
 
I too am inspired by this and harvested some Japanese white pine pinecones this week from local parks and gardens. The variety seems to have been labeled “glauca”. Perhaps not the best seeds compared to what Frank has, but it’s a free and fun project. Worst case scenario, I’ll have a bunch of jwp rootstock to graft better cultivars in the future
 
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Just noticed that 88 out of your 100 seeds sprouted. That's an absolute tremendous success. The best success rate I've ever heard of with JWP seeds to be honest.
 
I think you had enough of them to try to prune off the entire root, and to re-root it as a cutting. That would permanently get it rid of the taproot. And all the taproot that grows from now on isn't root you'll end up pruning off anyway.
If you end up growing a second batch, I would definitely try that. I believe even someone on Bnut had either a thread or YT video documenting it.
I have used the stem cutting technique on the JBP I propagated decades ago. For JWP it is recommended that the first root trimming be done after the first years growth and then only up to where the tap root first forks. My first batch were started late in the season but I will be root trimming them this coming month and repotting them in the same size containers for this growing season. Currently they. are up to the third set of leaves but not very tall yet. They have progressed slowly over the winter in the protected greenhouse with frost protection.
 
This year I have sourced JWP seed from two different collection areas in Japan. The first is Hokkaido and the second is Shikoku. The Shikoku seeds are special in that the JWP from this area are noted for short silvery blue needles and very rough bark. I was very fortunate to see a nice example of a collected JWP from Shikoku and just loved the combination of characteristics. So at the end of March I will start the second and third batch of JWP seeds. I am excited to see some variation in genetic makeup over the years as they develop. I have about 100 seeds collected from each of the two locations. Here is a picture of the collected tree that I was able to view recently in Japan. The tree is not wired or pruned for show currently but very healthy and displaying wonderful characteristics of shorter needles and rough bark than usual for JWP. The tree is approximately 40 years old according to the owner and it was collected by his father on the island of Shikoku! I first became aware of this strain due to noticing it included in the description of several stunning examples displayed at Kokufu. I do not know which cultivars may have been developed from this strain, only that trees collected from this area are considered very desirable in Japan. For reference this tree is about 24 inches tall. All the other bonsai are made or shohin size under development in this nursery located in Tokoname.




IMG_3989.jpegIMG_3991.jpeg
 
This year I have sourced JWP seed from two different collection areas in Japan. The first is Hokkaido and the second is Shikoku. The Shikoku seeds are special in that the JWP from this area are noted for short silvery blue needles and very rough bark. I was very fortunate to see a nice example of a collected JWP from Shikoku and just loved the combination of characteristics. So at the end of March I will start the second and third batch of JWP seeds. I am excited to see some variation in genetic makeup over the years as they develop. I have about 100 seeds collected from each of the two locations. Here is a picture of the collected tree that I was able to view recently in Japan. The tree is not wired or pruned for show currently but very healthy and displaying wonderful characteristics of shorter needles and rough bark than usual for JWP. The tree is approximately 40 years old according to the owner and it was collected by his father on the island of Shikoku! I first became aware of this strain due to noticing it included in the description of several stunning examples displayed at Kokufu. I do not know which cultivars may have been developed from this strain, only that trees collected from this area are considered very desirable in Japan. For reference this tree is about 24 inches tall. All the other bonsai are made or shohin size under development in this nursery located in Tokoname.




View attachment 583566View attachment 583567
Beautiful! So many variations with JWP it’s really pretty astonishing.
 
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