leatherback
The Treedeemer
Great project!
Japanese White Pine from seed ( the next generations material)
- Thread starter River's Edge
- Start date
tanlu
Shohin
Micro fractures sounds accurate. I had used the same wire to anchor the seedlings in their pots to wire in low trunk bends. I’ve learned my lesson to separate those two wires going forward. What is your fertilizer regime for the seedlings?Expected response. wiring weakens the tree with micro fractures and added stress points requiring energy to heal in position. They will catch up over time. Similar response with root work during development. Avoiding the root work gives faster growth but creates work down the road that slows down the growth!
No wait list in place. My sales are limited to my location, personal shopping only during an appointment or one of my annual open house events. Do not ship or sell via the internet. Small one person operation with limited production.
I completely understand about the local sales only. Much more sustainable from a operations perspective.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I am using small amounts of liquified Seaweed , Grow Pro, and Espoma Plant Tone for Evergreens. The organic granules from Epsom are applied on the soil surface. The other two products are alternated months with low doses. My approach is designed to ensure a broad range of nutrients and beneficial microorganisms is available. You will get some colour change with the Grow Pro. For that reason I would not use it exclusively.
The demand for well developed material is high within the Bonsai circles on a local, regional, national or international level. Finding good material for Bonsai is difficult at the best of times. Can be a lifetime spent searching!
But then it takes time, a lot of time if done right.
PA_Penjing
Chumono
I have been thinking about doing the same thing. I think I'm convinced now
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I understand there is a grower starting a similar project in Maine. It would be great if a lot of smaller growers took the time to produce some high quality pre-bonsai. Not really possible IMHO with larger commercial enterprises that need to focus on efficiency and profit. They are great to produce cuttings or seedlings for mass production though. Rarely would they have the expertise and manpower to take the time to develop higher quality outcomes.
I love everything about this thread, ty for all ypur work and knowledge sharing @River's Edge
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I would recommend obtaining a copy of Julien Adams book on Growing Pines for Bonsai as an interesting perspective and varied approach with specific thoughts for White Pine. Not expensive and very worthwhile to benefit from his insight and expertise. It is one of those books that contain some valuable nuggets, applicable and adaptable to a variety of approaches.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Post #1 in this thread
tanlu
Shohin
Yes, I appreciate his perspective on developing pre-bonsai because it’s a systematic one with an engineer’s lens.
tanlu
Shohin
once my kiddo is grown and we get more space, I’d like to start a project like this for JWP and perhaps native east coast US pine species like pitch pine, Virginia pine, jack pine, and short leaf pine.
backuppedro
Sapling
What was your total success rate per batch please
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
The results were varied. First batch in 2024 germinated with about 80 percent rate. Second batch from Hokkaido roughly 60 percent germination rate. Seed from Shikoku germinated less than 50 percent rate. Generally speaking the quality of seed and quantity of seed available has been declining. Local collectors blame it on the changing weather patterns iover the past several years. IFortunately I purchased a reasonable quantity of seed to work with.
backuppedro
Sapling
Obviously 80% is fanatastic but over 50% still seems pretty great.
Mind if I ask the cost involved of procuring the seeds
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Now that would definitely take the fun out of the project.
Lots of variables each time a group of seeds is purchased. Vendors charge variable pricing, currency exchange keeps changing, shipping costs vary and paperwork varies per residency.
I would roughly estimate .50 to $1 per seed.
The real cost is the daily care for decades to create quality pre-bonsai.
Of course after that one must recognize that a percentage of those turn out better than the rest and some will be lost along the way.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
VERY COOL PROJECT....KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
backuppedro
Sapling
No inventory available in my area
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Will do, I like to have young developing stock on hand to balance out the individual tasks on later stages of development and refinement. The second year seedling are ready to transfer to larger pots this spring. I will reduce some tap roots further again this year when I shift them over. This will slow the growth a bit initially but set a better beginning to the root structure. Most times I have used the radial stem cutting approach in the past. This time I am following more of an individual staged approach to the seedlings.
The second year seedlings are roughly 4 inches in height at this point so fairly short internodes.
My intention is to grow more lower branching from the outset for shorter more powerful designs over the long term.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Consider completing your information to display your location and climate designation in the profile. Often other members can direct inquiries and sources if they have that information.No inventory available in my area
Hello River’s Edge, I also started Japanese white pines from seed in 2020 alongside many other trees, here’s what i’ve noticed.
They grow much slower than all other pines but i’m sure a lot of people already know that. Even though they are slower growing, they are much more resilient than people say. I’ve lost less Japanese white pines seedlings than a lot of other pine species which was very surprising to me. I have a theory that it’s because they produce a lot more foliage than roots and because the taproot are removed, they barely have roots to stabilize them so they get splashed around by the wind easier so I make sure I stabilize them in the pot. I also double the timeline when it comes to doing any work on them. I live in Seattle area so take that into consideration when growing them. Also they like to produce a whirl of buds which cause a bulge quickly in the spring so you gotta keep an eye on that.
I’m growing about 25 of them and only 2 of them died over the course of the last 5 years and I believe it’s because they were not stable in the pot.
Here are some photos of my progress.
Attachments
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Neat to see your progress! If I could pass on a couple of suggestions based on your pictures. Stability of the root structure will be affected by your media in terms of its weight and particle size! The pictures seem to show either pumice or perlite as your choice. Given your location my best guess would be pumice. If you use a bit heavier media components and a bit larger particle size the root growth will be more stable and root size a bit stronger. Also the air pruning type baskets can work very well with JBP and JRP, JWP prefers a bit moister environment. Over the years I have discovered that the nebari develop much better if kept covered during development so I tend to keep my seedlings with a generous soil cover to avoid exposing the roots during development.
Although the PNW can have wetter seasons we do tend to have dryer more extended summers lately.
Thanks for sharing your interest and progress. You should start a separate thread to document the manner in which you develop the nebari, trunk and branching. Will be interesting to see a varied approach.
