barrosinc
Masterpiece
what do you do to the red pot the rest of the year?
Both look good actually XD
Both look good actually XD
Questions I never asked because they might make me look stupid
- Thread starter Eric Group
- Start date
Barrosinc, is the gray pot ugly? I don't think so. I think most everyone would agree that it's a little oversized. But I'm certainly not going to say that the tree/pot combo is "ugly".
Now, let's pretend that the red pot is a $2000 pot. Would you want to keep it in that pot everyday? (My red pot is a rather expensive, but not THAT expensive! LOL!!!)
The tree benefits a bit by having a little extra soil. There are places on that tree where I want more growth, and having a little oversized pot aids in this regard.
And, I guess it was in the Show pot about 2 months.
Now, let's pretend that the red pot is a $2000 pot. Would you want to keep it in that pot everyday? (My red pot is a rather expensive, but not THAT expensive! LOL!!!)
The tree benefits a bit by having a little extra soil. There are places on that tree where I want more growth, and having a little oversized pot aids in this regard.
And, I guess it was in the Show pot about 2 months.
The show pot is stored in a cabinet with other show pots. It's at Boon's. He had a cabinet of Show pots for his and his clients trees.
Some people display their show pots on shelves in the house when not in use.
Heck, some just collect the pots, and never put a tree in them!
Some people display their show pots on shelves in the house when not in use.
Heck, some just collect the pots, and never put a tree in them!
barrosinc
Masterpiece
Nope, never said it was ugly... I said "Both look good actually XD"
But I get it that Boon has a bunch of show pots for lots of trees for different people so he can't have a tree in it all the time.
If it were mine and the size was not going to harm the tree I would use it all the time.
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
GUILTY AS CHARGED! show level pots are much easier to achieve and maintain than a show tree!
Barronsinc, our posts crossed, I know you didn't say my pot was ugly. I was remarking on your comment that you wouldn't want it in an ugly pot most of the time.
You can keep it in the expensive pot all the time if you want. Some people have hard water, and get calcium deposits on their pots. In that case, it is more prudent to swap out pots.
You can keep it in the expensive pot all the time if you want. Some people have hard water, and get calcium deposits on their pots. In that case, it is more prudent to swap out pots.
drew33998
Masterpiece
Interesting. Well that clears it up Adair. That would mean that most conifers would be wired for a show? While I don't have anything close to show quality that is interesting. Not only would you worry about the quality of the tree but the quality of your wiring for a show. I am a loooong way from my wiring being up to snuff enough that I would put it out for display for all to see. One of my goals is to improve my wiring technique this year.
LEAVESOFGRASS
Yamadori
TL.....DR
Drew -
Absolutely! Yes, most conifers are shown wired.
You can show a tree with copper wire only. Copper is smaller, thus less noticeable. Freshly wired copper will be red, over time it turns more brown. If you have to do the wiring just before a show, you can make it go brown by painting it with a very dilute solution of lime sulphur. Do a test before you do in your tree.
My JBP, and my Atlas Cedar were recently shown, and both have every twig wired.
Absolutely! Yes, most conifers are shown wired.
You can show a tree with copper wire only. Copper is smaller, thus less noticeable. Freshly wired copper will be red, over time it turns more brown. If you have to do the wiring just before a show, you can make it go brown by painting it with a very dilute solution of lime sulphur. Do a test before you do in your tree.
My JBP, and my Atlas Cedar were recently shown, and both have every twig wired.
Wiring is part of the "art" of bonsai. So make your wiring as beautiful as you can. This means using appropriately sized wires, neatly applied, even spirals, wires not crossing,etc.
Generally speaking, guy wires are not appropriate for shows. If used, they must be very minimal, placed in the back with very thin wire. Applied with a single wire, if possible. The technique where a loop of wire is "tightened" by sticking a nail between the wires, and turning it, is fine as a training technique, and looks ok for the bench at home, but is not appropriate for shows. If the tree is going to be shown, and has the twisted wires, set up a single wire parallel to the twisted set, get it tight, then remove the twisted set for the show.
By the way, never show a tree that has a wire looped over any part of the nebari where it is visible. I have seen where it has been done, and the wire is run through some clear plastic tubing to protect the roots. Sorry, that's just not acceptable, especially when showing.
Generally speaking, guy wires are not appropriate for shows. If used, they must be very minimal, placed in the back with very thin wire. Applied with a single wire, if possible. The technique where a loop of wire is "tightened" by sticking a nail between the wires, and turning it, is fine as a training technique, and looks ok for the bench at home, but is not appropriate for shows. If the tree is going to be shown, and has the twisted wires, set up a single wire parallel to the twisted set, get it tight, then remove the twisted set for the show.
By the way, never show a tree that has a wire looped over any part of the nebari where it is visible. I have seen where it has been done, and the wire is run through some clear plastic tubing to protect the roots. Sorry, that's just not acceptable, especially when showing.
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Adair M! TY - In my circles many question what I try to with wire making it important BUT not standing out and taking away from the specimen. I have been told out right by well respected artists that I take to many precautions but feel better now seeing what you do. Wire is a pain to learn - presentation is for the most part FAR more delicate. Again TY 
Grimmy
Grimmy
Grimmy,
It's no secret that I'm a Boon student. He places great emphasis on good wiring. Before I started studying with him, I thought I was pretty good, but Boon taught me how to "take it up a notch". Several notches, actually! And I still have a way to go to improve further.
I watched Daisaku Nomoto wire a tree, and i realized that I'm still barely competent.
On my JBP, the second branch from the bottom on thr right had to be rewired two weeks before the show. The wire was really cutting in. So the wire is red. The old wire elsewhere on the tree, it's brown.
That tree lives at Boon's. I work on it at the Intensives. I don't have enough time to wire the whole thing, I get it done a section at a time. now that it's fully wired, I'll be taking the oldest wire off and replacing it with new.
Here are some pictures detailing all the wiring, taken from several angles after I finally finished wiring the whole thing
It's no secret that I'm a Boon student. He places great emphasis on good wiring. Before I started studying with him, I thought I was pretty good, but Boon taught me how to "take it up a notch". Several notches, actually! And I still have a way to go to improve further.
I watched Daisaku Nomoto wire a tree, and i realized that I'm still barely competent.
On my JBP, the second branch from the bottom on thr right had to be rewired two weeks before the show. The wire was really cutting in. So the wire is red. The old wire elsewhere on the tree, it's brown.
That tree lives at Boon's. I work on it at the Intensives. I don't have enough time to wire the whole thing, I get it done a section at a time. now that it's fully wired, I'll be taking the oldest wire off and replacing it with new.
Here are some pictures detailing all the wiring, taken from several angles after I finally finished wiring the whole thing
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I realize this thread has more or less run its course, but I have a stupid question that I really have been afraid to ask.
So, does one's time start
Among other things, one's experience making bonsai is a criterion for the Box Store Challenges which, IMO, are artistic in nature.
So, does one's time start
- when they first tried to wrap some wire around the branches and has that silly pride of 'look what I made' (kind of like toilet training)?
- Or does it all begin with putting a tree in a pot.
- Or when some inorganic medium is first used successfully?
- Or is it when one joins BNut, they've officially started 'doing bonsai'?
- Or ????
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Amen OSO.
I'm still a good number of years away from repotting into actual bonsai pots, which from a couple trials, I can tell is not easy. I will be practicing that for a few years after a few years!
Maybe we should be like doctors and call it a practice!
Sorce
I'm still a good number of years away from repotting into actual bonsai pots, which from a couple trials, I can tell is not easy. I will be practicing that for a few years after a few years!
Maybe we should be like doctors and call it a practice!
Sorce
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
How about: "when I realized what I've been calling 'doing bonsai' for the last two years, isn't 'doing bonsai'!"
Usually happens at a first decent bonsai show, a trip to a real bonsai nursery, visiting an established collection, or collecting a sweet yamadori...and is followed by going home, trashing all previous efforts, and starting over.
Usually happens at a first decent bonsai show, a trip to a real bonsai nursery, visiting an established collection, or collecting a sweet yamadori...and is followed by going home, trashing all previous efforts, and starting over.
fviljoen963
Mame
Any advice on how to ensure this does not keep taking you back to relatively the same step where you feel you're getting better and more worthwhile material but you're just never any closer to owning trees worth showing off to family and friends?
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Yes. Buy and collect better trees; don't shop for bonsai materials at the box stores. Learn to identify quality.
Find someone who has nice trees and seek their guidance and opinions.
KennedyMarx
Omono
What about deciduous trees?
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Almost never...
Edit...I cannot think of an instance where showing a d-tree would be appropriate; particularly if it's not in leaf.
Last edited:
Yep. deciduous trees really don't "wire" very well. Once the wood has lignified, it's pretty much set.
(Guess that's why they call them "hardwood".)
Which is not to say that you can't wire a deciduous tree. But, really, the time to wire is when the branches are real young. I mean, a month old. While the shoots is still green, and has leaves on it. Wire it out with aluminum, put movement in it, and let it sit for a month. Until it lignified. Then remove the wire.
Cut back. When the new shoots extend, wire again.
Repeat. Over and over.
Then work on ramification once structure is set. Ramification you can scissor train. No need for wire.
After ramification , it's show time. So, no need for wire at the show. If the tree still has wire, it's not ready to show.
(Guess that's why they call them "hardwood".)
Which is not to say that you can't wire a deciduous tree. But, really, the time to wire is when the branches are real young. I mean, a month old. While the shoots is still green, and has leaves on it. Wire it out with aluminum, put movement in it, and let it sit for a month. Until it lignified. Then remove the wire.
Cut back. When the new shoots extend, wire again.
Repeat. Over and over.
Then work on ramification once structure is set. Ramification you can scissor train. No need for wire.
After ramification , it's show time. So, no need for wire at the show. If the tree still has wire, it's not ready to show.
