Deciduous yamadori in the US

Steve Kudela said:
I think of the bonsaimen of Japan, they didn't run to the local box store to purchase the latest introduction from the U.S., they collected natives and I think that that's the way to go. Certainly my favorites..............just one guys view. thanks again...................SKView attachment 88969 View attachment 88970
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With all the talk about "What is American Bonsai?" you would think we would be focused on the species just as much as the way they are styled. Yes.. Ponderosa Pine, Limber etc. but what are the deciduous? Bald Cypress maybe.

wireme said:
Have you all seen the Croatian trees posted on Walters travelogues recently?

A few of them look able to compete with the big western conifers with only a time frame of ten yrs or so of development, I think.

Nice stuff on this thread but Im not seeing much in N.A. comparable yet eh? Some of the bald cypress I guess.

Is it the centuries of goat herding or grazing domestic stock that makes the difference?
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I agree with wireme, some of the European Deciduous species can compete with the big conifers including Carpinus, Blackthorn, and Hawthorn. Some of those are awesome when collected. We have awesome stuff to collect in the US and some of our deciduous can make beautiful trees with a different look than the European. To me our best deciduous look younger when collected than the species I mentioned.

Saying all of that, I am completely content with our American trees just wondering what else is out there
 
Steve Kudela said:
Hey folks, here is a pair of titi trees collected 7 years ago according to my limited notes. I had said in an earlier post 4 years. They have both developed fairly fast, the first one further along. Still have a year or two of root rearranging on the second one. I'm guessing that they are approximately 60 y.o. The first measures 28 tall, 25 wide, rootage 12 inches at soil level. The second, 33 tall, 22 wide, rootage 9 inches at soil level. That is to say, will be their dimensions after cutback. I've held off any pruning and shaping as we've had almost no cold and I don't want to get them tuned up again. They share the hollow character the same as the ones that hometeamrocker talked about. They will tolerate a lot of abuse as you can see. Another tree fell on these years and years ago, they just kept on moving. I completely agree with Vin, I feel like cyrilla is a really good southern specie to work with along with bunches of others. I think of the bonsaimen of Japan, they didn't run to the local box store to purchase the latest introduction from the U.S., they collected natives and I think that that's the way to go. Certainly my favorites..............just one guys view. thanks again...................SKView attachment 88969 View attachment 88970
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I like what you've done with them! There are so many of them around here I figured I would stumble across one I like sooner or later. I've become very selective with my purchases/collections over the last year. I think Walter is rubbing off on me..
 
Very new here but have collected hawthorn , American birch,Russian olive,cherry,hornbeam,small leaf linden,box elder. All are planted in my yard. See how many are alive next spring. I love hunting for stuff. When I golf I would rather look for golf balls.
 
Vin said:
I like what you've done with them! There are so many of them around here I figured I would stumble across one I like sooner or later. I've become very selective with my purchases/collections over the last year. I think Walter is rubbing off on me..
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Thanks so much Vin. I like that one you put up, good tree. I think it pays to be selective, I've come home empty handed from many a nursery or collecting trip.
 
Steve Kudela said:
Thanks so much Vin. I like that one you put up, good tree. I think it pays to be selective, I've come home empty handed from many a nursery or collecting trip.
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You're too kind. I wanted to accomplish a few things with the tree. It was pulled from a swamp and started off around 12 - 15 feet tall. I wanted to see if they could survive a chop and bare root in one go. It did and then some so then it was time to see if I could put it out of its misery. Slap it in a bonsai pot only a year after collecting. I swear I could hear say "is that the best you got?" Now it's time to chop it again. We'll see it survives. :)
 
sorce said:
There is an untapped market in cow fields I reckon!

Too much hoity toity not enough diggy diggy!

Sorce
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Absolutely! Also deer and goat. I've dug ancient coast live oak on a dairy farm where cows grazed on the same path for over 100 years. Short chunky trunks with killer movement and rapid taper. The stuff of dreams.
 
I've been scouting for trees on a farm in southwest Michigan. Lots of interesting species, but the soils are sandy and deep, which means most trees have deep tap roots. For nice bark, bur oak is ideal, but unfortunately bur oak have roots that go deep. I'm growing a couple seedlings, in 3 gallon nursery cans. Let them get to 5 feet, then chop to 4 inches, they are in the second cycle of growing out then chopping back. I let roots escape the pot over summer, then chop the escaped roots in fall. Time will tell if they submit. Big plus for bur oak is their rough bark, and ZONE 3 hardy. Too early to say much about leaf reduction or ramification. Won't worry about that until trunks are over 4 inches diameter a couple inches above the nebari. I don't expect results in less than 10 years. Winter protection last year was none, just left them in the middle of the yard, on the ground. full sun, fully exposed to winter wind, and they did fine. The advantage of working with a tree hardy to 2 zones colder than where you are at.

Bark of red oak is not as rough as bur oak. I think white oak is a good species to try also.

I do have an area where the water table is just inches below the soil. I need to stick a spade in the ground, but in this area trees might be shallow rooted. Need to check it out. Maybe a a spot to get an older tree without having to dig to the center of the earth. I have all winter to explore.
 
Deciduous trees are usually built, or grown, segment by segment, rather than collected. Or a larger tree is collected for its first few inches of trunk. Then chopped down, then the branches and rest of tree are grown segment by segment. Time frame for creating a deciuous from collected material is nearly as long as the time frame for growing from nursery stock and only a few years quicker than growing from seed.
But you can collect species that nurseries don't carry. We should do more collecting. Experiment more with local species. In Michigan, a Ponderosa pine is just as exotic as a Japanese black pine.

Larch, jack pine, American red pine, willows, birches, both hornbeams - Carpinus and Ostrya, deciduous native Ilex, Amelanchier (serviceberry), native hawthorns, oaks, dogwoods, alders, sumacs, persimmon, and more should all be looked at for bonsai if you are in Michigan, IL or Wisc.
 
For what it's worth, the vast majority of the decidious bonsai in Japan were grown, not collected.

I'm not saying that you won't find good collected decidious material out there, it's just easier to grow it then find it. Totally different than conifers. An exception of course with Larch and Bald Cypress.
 
Yep, most deciduous are grown but I am envious of the collected ones being found in Europe. Hoping someone can post something that competes with those that was collected in the US. I love Larch but it only half counts ;)

Leo in N E Illinois said:
and don't forget Thuja, a great species, best scouted from a canoe look on undercut stream banks.
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This is exactly what I do, except I use a paddle board. Its a good workout too. Found two really nice Thuja this way. Posted one on this site, when asking for permission on the other one got a really odd stare back as well as a big fat no.... haha
 
Andrew Thomas said:
For what it's worth, the vast majority of the decidious bonsai in Japan were grown, not collected.

I'm not saying that you won't find good collected decidious material out there, it's just easier to grow it then find it. Totally different than conifers. An exception of course with Larch and Bald Cypress.
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This is a bit shortsighted and more than a little biased.

It's definitely not easier to grow deciduous trees out rather than looking for decent collected stock. There are spectacular old deciduous trees out there for the taking--you just have to get out and look for them. The oak I posted earlier is 160 years old (I counted the rings in the primary root that points to the front of the tree, 160 is when the rings got too small to count with the eye--I'd say you could probably round it up to 200 easy) That twisted trunk--like old conifer trunks--really can't be reproduced by anyone in their lifetime.

That tree isn't an exception. There are loads of this kind of material out there. The guy who collected it in Texas had hundreds of old twisted cedar elms and other species from his region (waaay beyond bald cypress) that were spectacular with old bark and movement in their trunks. And FWIW, I find it kind of silly to envy European deciduous trees. The continental U.S. can swallow most of Europe, we have a wider range of climate and topography. It's been estimated that one ACRE of Appalachian Cover forest, say in Tennessee, has more tree species in it than ALL of Europe. Wake up and get out and look...

The collector in Texas (Vito Megna) isn't collecting anymore and has passed on. He, like Vaughn Banting, was part of a generation of bonsai collectors who aren't mentioned much anymore as they were working mostly pre-Internet. We simply need to get out and look for trees. I know Vito and his counterparts covered a lot of ground looking, had established connections with land owners and knew where to look. He was the Randy Knight of his time, only he was too early to hit the big time and profit from the Internet.
http://www.midwestbonsai.org/bonsai-gallery/egjuq709ffdp5t5kuks8lnoubv9977
http://www.whitebearbonsai.com/product/24Elm
http://www.cajunbonsai.com/waterelm2page.htm
http://tenleytowndc.org/2015/09/08/local-photographer-pays-homage-to-ancient-art-in-new-project/

Finally, the thought of "why try to find good deciduous when I can grow my own" is limiting and self-defeating. Thinking that western collected conifers are the "shizzle" is fine, but not even trying by damning deciduous trees with faint praise is silly. The trees are out there. All you have to do is find them.
 

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Rockm, good examples posted above.

rockm said:
The continental U.S. can swallow most of Europe, we have a wider range of climate and topography. It's been estimated that one ACRE of Appalachian Cover forest, say in Tennessee, has more tree species in it than ALL of Europe.
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This quote is especially interesting to me and makes me want to drive and look for interesting areas in my state.
 
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